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maybe that's why try yeah well we can

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just keep going this way if you'd like

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it is this phone okay with you and are

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you comfortable yeah yeah this is fine

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all right

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and okay and again for the live listener

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that's been hanging in there thanks so

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much it looks like I have to do a little

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bit of editing I just saw your text so

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Robert so can you tell the first-time

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listener a little bit about yourself

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sure

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I live in Austin Texas

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my degree is in chemistry and I spent

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most of my career the last 30 years in

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the semiconductor field I was an

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engineering manager I worked on flash

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memory chips on microprocessor chips and

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I also managed a state-of-the-art

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chemistry laboratory as well as a

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state-of-the-art research and

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development laboratory I retired early

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when I was in my 50s and I went ahead

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and started doing the things I really

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enjoyed doing one of which was to

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investigate the UFO phenomena so I've

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spent the last 10 years actually

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probably putting in 15 to 20 hours a

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week on that just like it was a job well

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and I became the director of research at

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MUFON and done a lot of interesting

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investigations in addition to talk to

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personally interviewing probably over a

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hundred and fifty people I've I did the

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Stephenville lights investigation back

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in 2008 and then recently I did a detail

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investigation on our deal agua dia which

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was IR video that occurred in Puerto

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Rico right I thought we could talk a

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little bit about that as well you know

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along with this new group that you have

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started but

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one in particular was there ever any

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consensus about what that I know people

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were saying it was a balloon you know

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you heard everything but was there ever

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any consensus of what that may end up

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being or is that still an unknown it's

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still an unknown

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you know people that banned various

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theories right such as a balloon I think

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I think that's the better theory would

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be some type of advanced drone but

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there's a few problems with that theory

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right when it goes into the water art

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when it goes into the water that's a

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little tough for a drone these days

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right that but what really makes it

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difficult is for a drone to come out of

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the water at high speed yeah they

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actually we research that and there are

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some drones that can enter the water and

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move through the water it it a good good

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speed right from camp can they do that

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right from the air or or do they have

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yeah really yeah mowing actually depends

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developed a drum flies like an airplane

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and then it blows its wings off right

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before it impacts the water and then it

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goes into the water like a torpedo and

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then it maintains you know fairly I've

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lost the underwater the the problem is

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though that that drone can't come back

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out of the water yeah and that's what

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happens on the video you know it were

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look that we looked at you know some

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people argue that well maybe it didn't

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really go in the water but they have yet

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could advance a strong argument as to

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why this object would not have actually

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been in the water but it's just an image

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issue because there are times where the

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image is crystal clear and disappears

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and it comes back crystal clear so

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that's that's not indicative of a video

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system that is that it's limit of

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capabilities and then you suddenly lose

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the object because then you wouldn't

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have it come back and you know it's a

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clear object again

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now I have taken a look at that video

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myself very interesting and one of the

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you know my first or a thought I had at

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one time was a balloon but I understand

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there was all types of maneuvers where

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that wouldn't really fit in and also the

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question I have do I recall that that

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either splits into two objects or was

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that some type of reflection no it

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splits into two objects we cannot

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explain that as a reflection so there's

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so you know so there are all of the

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debunkers are always trying to come up

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with some type of theory right they

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never really put out a full report and

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explain the video from beginning to end

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but they try to look at pieces of it

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so one once there it was oh maybe it's a

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pair of Chinese lanterns no that were

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tied together and then they tore apart

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right after they disappeared in the

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water and then of course they have to

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say well they didn't really go in the

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water in order to make that argument but

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probably the biggest problem with a

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Chinese lantern is that in order to meet

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the balloon theory requirements these

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lanterns would have to move at 20 to 25

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miles per hour

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mm-hmm and the problem there is a

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Chinese lantern won't survive it it

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speeds much above five miles per hour

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you mean oh just tear apart basically

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right yeah they will basically collapse

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because its base all it is is a candle

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it's inside a very lightweight envelope

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we can you know it yeah right and it's

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just pushing hot air to the top and so

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it makes it rise well it well if the

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wind impacts the side of it and

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collapses it will you know longer or

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lighter than air and so then it quickly

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drops

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hmm so for there's no way this could

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have been you know Chinese lanterns no

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has anyone good explanation so far yeah

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has anyone in you know I know that there

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were some people on the team that we're

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looking at this seriously that

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he wanted to remain anonymous and those

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were people of you know basic science

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if I remember right is that true well

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the the guys who wrote the report as

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myself I have a science background hmm

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Carl I can't recall crossing the last

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name of Carl Paulson in Carl's back

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degrees and physics he got his physics

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degree in New York University and then

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he worked at Princeton Laboratories he

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worked for Lockheed a very intelligent

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guy so he was a key person in the

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analysis and then a guy by the name of

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Larry Cates who was his degrees in

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mathematics and he did a lot of the

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statistical work on it as well as you

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know just a lot of the calculations and

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then Morgan Beale whose background is in

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earth sciences and then of course

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Richard Hoffman who works at the Army

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Materiel Command

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and he's an engineer there so the those

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are the main guys that worked on it we

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also had as soon as we released the port

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report we had a I guess what you might

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call an IR technician time tactus

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because he worked on those exact same

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video systems

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this was the MX 15 and he worked on them

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in Puerto Rico he said he may have

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worked on the exact unit that took the

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photo he didn't you know he doesn't know

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but he was very familiar with them and

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he showed these videos to the other

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technicians in their lab and they said

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they couldn't identify what it was that

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comment was what was so unique to them

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was that the object was was so easy to

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see that was to them what was unique

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about it I see now

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and you remind me because it's been a

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while since I looked at this was there

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actually radar data as well yes we

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obtained radar data from the FAA and the

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radar data does not pick up the object

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is the plane is videoing it what the

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radar data did pick up though is it

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detected an unknown object in the same

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area that this object came towards the

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Puerto Rico from just northwest of the

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island about two miles offshore

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so radar picks up an unusual object

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approaching a puerto rico and what was

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unusual also was that the the radar was

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basically skiing every 10 seconds and so

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instead of seeing an object that's

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moving in a straight line there was an

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object without a transponder right so I

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mean I marry radar and it's just jumping

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around it's moving in a general

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direction and I never could figure out

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that that's just really strange it just

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00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:05,680
doesn't make any sense why would do that

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00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:08,170
I mean what the only thing I can say for

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00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:11,050
certain was there was some unknown in

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that area but I couldn't not explain you

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know why this seemingly random movement

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and when I say random it's moving in a

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direction but it's hopscotching around

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is it runs in that direction and we sent

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a copy of the report to the french group

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sigma3 AF which is a group of brain

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scientists that one time were part of

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you know CNES and their programs and and

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they brought up a good point and then i

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research it and said yeah i guess

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00:10:51,210 --> 00:10:47,019
they've got a a good point here that's

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very typical of an object that's jamming

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a radar signal really see the op yeah

219
00:11:02,009 --> 00:10:59,319
just j and me and you can jam radar

220
00:11:04,829 --> 00:11:02,019
signals in in different ways and the way

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i suspect this was occurring and this is

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just purely a hypothetical guess right

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00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:10,509
is that the object may have had a plasma

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around it in plasmas will cause a radar

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00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:18,610
being to skip and jump so that's just my

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00:11:23,939 --> 00:11:21,550
guess but that was very interesting that

227
00:11:26,490 --> 00:11:23,949
you know I mean what are the odds that

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we would pick up this unknown object

229
00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:28,930
right before this object approaches yeah

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Porto Rico that's really recently yeah

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that it disappeared off radar

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you know once it came over the island

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with we just calculated the distance

234
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that the radar could still detect the

235
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object based on altitude and once the

236
00:11:53,129 --> 00:11:49,180
object would drop below about 400 feet

237
00:11:55,079 --> 00:11:53,139
it would drop below radar so though that

238
00:11:58,019 --> 00:11:55,089
was the theory as it was probably above

239
00:12:00,449 --> 00:11:58,029
400 feet was picked up on radar then

240
00:12:04,110 --> 00:12:00,459
once it dropped below 400 feet then you

241
00:12:07,460 --> 00:12:04,120
can't cheat on radar anymore Wow well

242
00:12:09,930 --> 00:12:07,470
that is so yeah that is quite a case and

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and it's something when something like

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00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,139
this happens it just seems to go so far

245
00:12:18,889 --> 00:12:16,480
and then it kind of I don't know fades

246
00:12:21,389 --> 00:12:18,899
away don't you do you feel that way

247
00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:21,399
you know people stop talking about it

248
00:12:28,079 --> 00:12:25,209
and there's never a conclusion right

249
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:28,089
yeah that's the you know that's the

250
00:12:33,210 --> 00:12:29,920
problem when you find your right is that

251
00:12:35,309 --> 00:12:33,220
there's no there's no organization it

252
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continually follows all of these

253
00:12:41,579 --> 00:12:37,240
together you know like a government type

254
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:41,589
of organization hmm it's you know you're

255
00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:43,689
unless you know unless you have a

256
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:46,120
spaceship that lands or something hard

257
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and concrete that you can grab people

258
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lose interest and they just jump from

259
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one story to the next without really

260
00:13:01,050 --> 00:12:57,699
looking at okay where are the really

261
00:13:04,319 --> 00:13:01,060
important cases versus just you know

262
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light from the sky for example right

263
00:13:10,980 --> 00:13:07,600
right and you know that I I think in

264
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:10,990
general Society has changed in that way

265
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and I think it has to do with just all

266
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the information coming at us in all

267
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different ways all the time you know oh

268
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yeah you're right like I monitored

269
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a little bit on YouTube and on YouTube

270
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you can see how long the average person

271
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looks in the video yeah I mean the

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average person didn't look at the video

273
00:13:38,829 --> 00:13:34,939
for more than Oh probably 40 I think was

274
00:13:41,019 --> 00:13:38,839
around 40 45 seconds isn't that amazing

275
00:13:43,569 --> 00:13:41,029
yeah they never even saw the object

276
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:43,579
split they never saw the object go into

277
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:45,290
the water because they turned it off

278
00:13:50,829 --> 00:13:48,170
before it ever got there yeah yeah

279
00:13:52,929 --> 00:13:50,839
yeah it really really takes something to

280
00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:52,939
keep someone's attention and I do

281
00:14:02,919 --> 00:13:55,790
understand that I mean I can't even get

282
00:14:05,079 --> 00:14:02,929
through my email it's something so so

283
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,089
let's talk that case is really

284
00:14:09,549 --> 00:14:07,279
fascinating to me and I and if there's

285
00:14:14,579 --> 00:14:09,559
ever any chances an update I would love

286
00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:14,589
to know I'd love to know about that and

287
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:17,420
let's talk a little bit about the new

288
00:14:22,749 --> 00:14:20,540
organization that you just it just was

289
00:14:26,319 --> 00:14:22,759
founded recently it not too long ago

290
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:26,329
right I see you oh that's correct we

291
00:14:32,619 --> 00:14:30,110
created it in August scientific

292
00:14:39,939 --> 00:14:32,629
Coalition for youth ology which we just

293
00:14:42,549 --> 00:14:39,949
call SCCT concept is that we want people

294
00:14:44,999 --> 00:14:42,559
with either law enforcement

295
00:14:48,549 --> 00:14:45,009
investigating type backgrounds or

296
00:14:53,819 --> 00:14:48,559
science backgrounds and so currently we

297
00:14:59,379 --> 00:14:53,829
have 35 members and those 35 members

298
00:15:03,340 --> 00:14:59,389
nine members have PhDs 92% of all the

299
00:15:07,569 --> 00:15:03,350
members have college degrees and then we

300
00:15:10,659 --> 00:15:07,579
we have a board that kind of reviews the

301
00:15:16,689 --> 00:15:10,669
resumes of any individuals interested in

302
00:15:21,989 --> 00:15:16,699
joining and we we pretty much you know

303
00:15:24,699 --> 00:15:21,999
try to avoid bringing in anyone who has

304
00:15:27,389 --> 00:15:24,709
kind of a non scientific view of the

305
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:27,399
phenomenon so mm-hmm

306
00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:30,110
so we've got within the group we've got

307
00:15:39,610 --> 00:15:34,430
like PhDs and OSHA PhD and oceanography

308
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:39,620
a PhD in physics PhD in psychology and

309
00:15:43,450 --> 00:15:41,360
then we've got masters and bachelor's

310
00:15:46,990 --> 00:15:43,460
degrees and electrical engineering

311
00:15:53,230 --> 00:15:47,000
chemistry physics all of the major

312
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:53,240
science Sciences PhD in biochemistry so

313
00:15:58,180 --> 00:15:56,110
that tells you that there's a lot of

314
00:16:00,850 --> 00:15:58,190
scientists are interested in this

315
00:16:04,750 --> 00:16:00,860
phenomenon if it's investigated in a

316
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:04,760
serious manner mm-hmm and and that is

317
00:16:14,139 --> 00:16:07,790
your attempt that is your mission

318
00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:14,149
statement is investigating these now so

319
00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:16,940
who decides the cases that you're going

320
00:16:27,550 --> 00:16:25,900
well the way we're currently set up we

321
00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:27,560
actually have not gotten to the point

322
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:29,630
yet I've been bit investigating a

323
00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:32,720
specific case I mean other than I would

324
00:16:38,650 --> 00:16:35,270
be I would be a porto rico case right

325
00:16:41,710 --> 00:16:38,660
which was the very first case that we

326
00:16:46,269 --> 00:16:41,720
did but that was before we created the

327
00:16:48,490 --> 00:16:46,279
organization so now in any time we find

328
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:48,500
a case that looks like it has hard

329
00:16:55,329 --> 00:16:52,910
evidence then we will collect a group of

330
00:16:59,199 --> 00:16:55,339
individuals and we will investigate the

331
00:17:01,510 --> 00:16:59,209
case but I would say on average you only

332
00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:01,520
usually have one or two good cases a

333
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:04,790
year and buy a good case I mean a case

334
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:08,260
that you either have a lot of witnesses

335
00:17:14,650 --> 00:17:11,809
or you have some type of strong

336
00:17:16,530 --> 00:17:14,660
photograph or video something that can

337
00:17:20,939 --> 00:17:16,540
be analyzed kind of like the

338
00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:20,949
Stephenville case for the Aguadilla case

339
00:17:27,610 --> 00:17:23,689
something that you can kind of sink your

340
00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:27,620
teeth into it yes we were talking prior

341
00:17:32,650 --> 00:17:29,929
back when both of our internets were

342
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:32,660
working we were talking ahead of the

343
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:37,130
show about how elusive you know UFOs are

344
00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:40,010
and how you know if you're doing

345
00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:42,950
scientific research how difficult it is

346
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:47,140
to do it's not replicable

347
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:50,290
right it's not like you can sit out

348
00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:53,350
someplace and say okay yeah um I know

349
00:17:59,400 --> 00:17:55,660
there will be a UFO show up here today

350
00:18:02,760 --> 00:17:59,410
you know it's on the schedule doesn't

351
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:02,770
work that way yeah I think Bob Lazar

352
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:04,570
would argue with you on that one

353
00:18:08,730 --> 00:18:07,210
oh yeah yeah he would probably say yeah

354
00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:08,740
there's a place you can go and see them

355
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:14,070
all the time yeah well yeah so now the

356
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:18,640
the the website address let's just give

357
00:18:34,650 --> 00:18:23,590
that out real quickly yeah that is WWE

358
00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:34,660
excuse me it's WWE SBU org oh okay I

359
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:37,150
think I might have a different website

360
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:40,840
up I'll have to check that out so I I

361
00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:43,840
wish you luck I hope you may have it I

362
00:18:48,419 --> 00:18:45,820
think you're right I'm right

363
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:48,429
Barton you're right it's Explorer scu

364
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:51,130
org yeah I think that that sounds right

365
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:56,080
yeah yeah so let's hope some really good

366
00:19:02,010 --> 00:18:58,210
cases I see you can actually report a

367
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:02,020
case there as well and also let's talk

368
00:19:07,169 --> 00:19:04,809
quickly about UFO data because that is

369
00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:07,179
another organization you're involved in

370
00:19:12,930 --> 00:19:08,740
and that's got to be what three years

371
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:12,940
old or two years old now so gate is

372
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,240
three years old I'm not as actively

373
00:19:21,930 --> 00:19:18,960
involved in that organization but I'm

374
00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:21,940
part of the organization is its basic

375
00:19:31,890 --> 00:19:28,660
mission is to develop a basically an

376
00:19:35,539 --> 00:19:31,900
optical system that takes spectra of

377
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:35,549
lights at night so that you can analyze

378
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:39,010
the photo and the system that's been

379
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:40,809
developed so far actually takes two

380
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:42,880
images one is an optical image and then

381
00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:47,440
the other is the spectra mm-hmm the most

382
00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:51,070
difficult part that you know the UFO

383
00:19:58,770 --> 00:19:53,620
dated group has run into is basically

384
00:20:00,960 --> 00:19:58,780
the software issues that surround when

385
00:20:07,020 --> 00:20:00,970
you know how camera recognized

386
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,030
is an object right and without being

387
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:09,520
confused by falling leaf or movements

388
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:13,450
and clouds insects that go by those kind

389
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:15,250
of things so that's the most difficult

390
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:18,130
part of developing the system yeah

391
00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:20,049
there's going to be a lot of algorithm

392
00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:24,580
writing to get around all that right you

393
00:20:31,049 --> 00:20:27,820
know a lot of a lot of development to

394
00:20:34,940 --> 00:20:31,059
get something like that going so let's

395
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:34,950
talk about the Nimitz case which is

396
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:39,130
another fascinating case the first I

397
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,960
know I know people were talking about it

398
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:42,880
before but the first I heard about it is

399
00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:48,000
when Chris Chris mellon talked about it

400
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:51,100
but you have how long have you been

401
00:20:57,570 --> 00:20:54,179
researching that case in particular I

402
00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:57,580
actually first found out about this case

403
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:00,900
in July of 2016

404
00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:05,530
hmm it's kind of an interesting story

405
00:21:11,789 --> 00:21:08,140
because when I found out about it it

406
00:21:15,419 --> 00:21:11,799
wasn't the rest of it wasn't really out

407
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:15,429
there in the UFO world per se I think

408
00:21:21,180 --> 00:21:17,950
there had been something that cropped up

409
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:21,190
in around the year 2007 on a website

410
00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:23,950
called above top secret oh yeah

411
00:21:30,810 --> 00:21:27,220
but but that was all that was all there

412
00:21:34,980 --> 00:21:30,820
was and there was much about the case at

413
00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:34,990
that point in time but in mid-2016 a

414
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:37,809
gentleman that I've known for a number

415
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:41,710
of years who is not in the mainstream

416
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:44,710
ufology world but I know that he works

417
00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:47,830
with the government and he has done work

418
00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:51,580
for organizations related to UFOs in the

419
00:22:00,180 --> 00:21:56,470
government now I was meeting with him

420
00:22:02,610 --> 00:22:00,190
and he was we were talking about the

421
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:02,620
hardwood deer case and so he said well

422
00:22:07,049 --> 00:22:04,570
I've got an interesting case that you

423
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:07,059
might be want to hear a little bit about

424
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:10,450
and he had a folder that was a half inch

425
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:13,809
thick on this case but he wouldn't he

426
00:22:15,810 --> 00:22:14,110
would

427
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:15,820
let me see the folder but he told me

428
00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:18,880
some things about the case and then he

429
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:23,020
said but by the way someone has leaked

430
00:22:27,870 --> 00:22:26,320
it to the Internet so if you want to do

431
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:27,880
a little googling you won't have any

432
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:30,400
problem finding it so that's why I

433
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:32,200
proceeded to do mm-hmm

434
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:37,710
and I found the magazine article by a

435
00:22:44,010 --> 00:22:42,490
former Navy colonel his name's of Paco I

436
00:22:45,450 --> 00:22:44,020
remember if I can pronounce his last

437
00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:45,460
name correctly I think something like

438
00:22:50,940 --> 00:22:47,230
chick Kerry or something like that

439
00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:50,950
but probably a number of your listeners

440
00:22:56,430 --> 00:22:53,980
may have seen this website so I found

441
00:23:00,090 --> 00:22:56,440
the website so what attracted me to it

442
00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:00,100
was it was not a typical UFO website

443
00:23:06,690 --> 00:23:02,860
right this was actually on a navy blog

444
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:06,700
and so I'd looked in the writers ba bla

445
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:08,830
other blogs right and they're all about

446
00:23:16,289 --> 00:23:12,130
Navy items this is his only write-up on

447
00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:16,299
a UFO and he's using navy lingo through

448
00:23:22,890 --> 00:23:19,270
the whole thing he takes time in the

449
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:22,900
beginning to say you know this is pretty

450
00:23:28,409 --> 00:23:25,570
crazy and so I'm gonna start off by

451
00:23:31,140 --> 00:23:28,419
telling you how strong the witnesses

452
00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:31,150
were are in terms of their credibility

453
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:36,280
and so he goes through that and so since

454
00:23:42,210 --> 00:23:38,650
I read that I said okay this is a

455
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:42,220
legitimate case this is not you know

456
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:45,970
just some wild case out there so I began

457
00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:47,710
the first thing I had to do is go look

458
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:50,470
up all the Navy lingo so I could

459
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:52,450
understand exactly what these guys were

460
00:24:00,860 --> 00:23:55,809
saying happened and so once I did that

461
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:00,870
the next step was in late December of

462
00:24:08,909 --> 00:24:05,650
2016 I sent out I think about eleven

463
00:24:11,490 --> 00:24:08,919
foyers I think all told now I've sent

464
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:11,500
out thirteen foyers so I sent them out

465
00:24:18,659 --> 00:24:15,850
to every different Navy organization to

466
00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:18,669
find out information because it it's

467
00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:20,590
probably good at this point that toe

468
00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:23,470
your audience kind of what basically

469
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:27,580
happens so there there's a u.s. naval

470
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:28,300
group

471
00:24:38,430 --> 00:24:32,410
out about 70 miles west San Diego

472
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,440
November of 2004 and they had been the

473
00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:40,960
USS Princeton which is missile frigate

474
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:44,860
had one of the top radar systems at that

475
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:46,720
time which was called a spy-1 radar

476
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:50,110
system and they've been detecting an

477
00:24:55,380 --> 00:24:51,850
object apparently for several days that

478
00:24:59,400 --> 00:24:55,390
would be up at 80,000 feet and then it

479
00:25:02,430 --> 00:24:59,410
would be down to you know 50 feet to 100

480
00:25:04,890 --> 00:25:02,440
feet above the ocean floor and so on

481
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:04,900
this particular day I'm not sure what

482
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:08,950
motivated them to do this but the

483
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:11,170
Princeton picks us up these two objects

484
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:13,120
up or one I'm not sure it's one or two

485
00:25:23,030 --> 00:25:16,680
objects that picked them up on radar and

486
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:23,040
they call in a marine f-18 colonel

487
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:25,930
Lieutenant Colonel Kurtz who also

488
00:25:33,030 --> 00:25:28,210
happened to be the commanding officer of

489
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,040
that of an entire marine squadron so

490
00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:35,200
they give him the coordinates and he's

491
00:25:43,620 --> 00:25:39,430
flying to coordinates before he gets

492
00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:43,630
there the Princeton radios him and tells

493
00:25:50,430 --> 00:25:45,640
him to break off because they're sending

494
00:25:55,130 --> 00:25:50,440
two Navy super hornets which is just you

495
00:25:58,290 --> 00:25:55,140
know a more advanced f-18 to the target

496
00:26:00,840 --> 00:25:58,300
but since he's in the area he goes ahead

497
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:00,850
and flies by and he never sees the

498
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:05,950
targets but he sees this huge bubbling

499
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:08,890
area in the ocean which to him the best

500
00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:11,890
explanation is like a ship that has just

501
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:16,150
suck he says that the water is glassy

502
00:26:23,790 --> 00:26:19,050
clear that day except for this one area

503
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:23,800
so he breaks off and goes from the area

504
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:27,700
and then the other two f-18s who the

505
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:31,150
commander of the group which is called

506
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:35,130
the Black Aces off of the USS Nimitz

507
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:37,630
command the commanders last name is

508
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:41,710
frayed or he he's headed there

509
00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:46,410
with his wing guy and as they approach

510
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:49,000
they don't see anything on radar but

511
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:51,010
once they get close enough and get to

512
00:26:56,550 --> 00:26:54,250
the target they see the target that the

513
00:26:59,730 --> 00:26:56,560
USS Princeton has vectored them to them

514
00:27:02,160 --> 00:26:59,740
and what they see is basically he

515
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:02,170
describes it as a tic-tac so it's

516
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:04,030
basically you know like those candies

517
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:09,790
mm-hmm it's a oval type object and the

518
00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:13,030
commander believes the tic-tac is he

519
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:14,860
said there's no wings there's no method

520
00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:16,930
of propulsion it's just there in the sky

521
00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:19,990
and but then it turns its nose towards

522
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:22,600
him and when he does that when it does

523
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:25,330
that he assumes that that's an

524
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:29,500
aggressive move and so one of the f-18s

525
00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:32,290
I think changes to a different altitude

526
00:27:37,860 --> 00:27:36,220
and then his f-18 engages the object now

527
00:27:41,670 --> 00:27:37,870
he doesn't have any weaponry on board

528
00:27:44,220 --> 00:27:41,680
he's just I guess doing his standard

529
00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:44,230
maneuvers which yeah I'm not familiar

530
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:47,590
with those stopping and maybe but my

531
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:50,260
understanding is what happens is he's

532
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:51,970
trying to do a maneuver so he gets

533
00:28:00,090 --> 00:27:56,890
behind the object and the object

534
00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:00,100
actually gets behind him and so he's

535
00:28:04,350 --> 00:28:02,380
never able to do that and he's you know

536
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:04,360
he does various maneuvers and then

537
00:28:13,050 --> 00:28:07,180
finally this object just takes off and

538
00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:13,060
leaves so he and the other f-18 I think

539
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:15,040
they're not able to match that speed so

540
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:17,650
they just head back to the Nimitz if

541
00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:19,930
they're heading back to the Nimitz the

542
00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:24,070
USS Princeton calls her and says you'll

543
00:28:30,350 --> 00:28:26,830
never guess but the object is back at

544
00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:30,360
its same tap and captious means that its

545
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:34,360
location where it was first found by the

546
00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:39,130
USS Princeton and so the commander says

547
00:28:43,710 --> 00:28:40,990
well you know we're we're low on fuel

548
00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:43,720
now we cannot you know turn back around

549
00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:46,300
and go back there so they proceeded to

550
00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:49,500
the Nimitz and the Nimitz ends two more

551
00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:53,080
f-18 to that target and it's at this

552
00:28:59,820 --> 00:28:55,540
point it's not real clear

553
00:29:02,810 --> 00:28:59,830
if if it was the first two f-18s or the

554
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:02,820
second two f-18s that apparently took a

555
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:06,370
video of the object but I'm pretty sure

556
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:12,210
it was the second pair of f-18s and and

557
00:29:19,170 --> 00:29:15,520
the story of what happens to them you

558
00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:19,180
know and we don't have because the guy

559
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:21,340
who wrote the Navy blog was familiar

560
00:29:26,670 --> 00:29:24,640
with this captain fray bar I mean not

561
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:26,680
captain but the commander for a bar and

562
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:29,170
Lieutenant Carl Cerf who was a commander

563
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:33,070
of the marine a marine squadron so what

564
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:35,200
his story basically is the story from

565
00:29:41,130 --> 00:29:38,110
those two officers and we don't have

566
00:29:45,140 --> 00:29:41,140
this story of who ever you know the two

567
00:29:47,670 --> 00:29:45,150
f-18s that went out later now when this

568
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:47,680
when they flew over and they saw the

569
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:53,470
bubbling in the water were they assuming

570
00:29:59,640 --> 00:29:55,390
that the thing went underwater and I

571
00:30:01,710 --> 00:29:59,650
heard you say early on that it was down

572
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:01,720
to a hundred feet above the ocean floor

573
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:03,850
so that means they were actually

574
00:30:09,810 --> 00:30:07,360
tracking in underwater oh okay I'm sorry

575
00:30:12,540 --> 00:30:09,820
100 feet above the ocean surface

576
00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:12,550
oh the officered surface okay just above

577
00:30:19,260 --> 00:30:17,350
the ocean surface now the in the article

578
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:19,270
that's written the marine Carl doesn't

579
00:30:25,140 --> 00:30:20,830
draw any conclusions as to whether

580
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:25,150
something this was the object he was

581
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:26,860
going to find or anything his only

582
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:29,610
conclusion was the ocean water was

583
00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:33,250
crystal clear you know much more calm

584
00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:37,300
than normal except in this area where it

585
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:39,400
looked like an object the size of a ship

586
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:41,980
had just sunk yeah because of turbulence

587
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:45,760
in the in that area but he did not know

588
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:49,120
what caused it or he didn't see anything

589
00:30:58,350 --> 00:30:53,490
that caused that that's he only saw the

590
00:31:01,710 --> 00:30:58,360
water turbulence so do you think at this

591
00:31:03,330 --> 00:31:01,720
point that this I know you did your for

592
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:03,340
use and we can talk more about that but

593
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:06,610
at this point is this case classified as

594
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:08,950
far as you know

595
00:31:16,350 --> 00:31:10,990
oh you mean classified by the military

596
00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:16,360
yes so far and all of my foyers that

597
00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:19,630
have been denied the Navy has never said

598
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:21,880
that this information is classified and

599
00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:24,490
that is why we can't send it to you what

600
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:27,580
they said every time was that they just

601
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:31,870
don't have the logs and so basically

602
00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:34,870
what they said is five different naval

603
00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:38,200
assets right the USS Nimitz the USS

604
00:31:49,379 --> 00:31:43,980
Princeton the Navy squadron the

605
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:49,389
arraigned f-18 and there was also what's

606
00:31:54,740 --> 00:31:51,610
called an e-2 Hawkeye which is an

607
00:31:57,779 --> 00:31:54,750
airborne early warning aircraft mm-hmm

608
00:32:00,539 --> 00:31:57,789
that was in the area that also picked up

609
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:00,549
the object on their radar all five of

610
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:04,169
those Navy assets when I sent foyers

611
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:07,600
every time the response came back was

612
00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:10,330
that we have no information we don't

613
00:32:16,460 --> 00:32:12,360
have those logs we don't have anything

614
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:16,470
so they never used a they never claimed

615
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:21,510
classification or top-secret however

616
00:32:29,129 --> 00:32:25,360
when I asked for the deck logs of the

617
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:29,139
USS Princeton I received that same

618
00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:31,500
replied that we don't have any deck logs

619
00:32:36,570 --> 00:32:35,080
in a FOIA officer because you know these

620
00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:36,580
FOIA officers that you send these

621
00:32:41,009 --> 00:32:39,220
requests to they're not really in the

622
00:32:42,659 --> 00:32:41,019
business of trying to hide information

623
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:42,669
from you they're just you know they're

624
00:32:49,940 --> 00:32:45,970
doing their clerical job mm-hmm and this

625
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:49,950
this FOIA officer didn't say this to me

626
00:33:00,740 --> 00:32:55,600
he said that's very unusual that they

627
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:00,750
can't give you the deck logs and he said

628
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:04,480
that it's so unlikely that they've lost

629
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,350
the deck logs that it's more likely that

630
00:33:13,019 --> 00:33:10,960
they have classified it and it's

631
00:33:14,190 --> 00:33:13,029
classified high enough that he you know

632
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,200
he's not even aware of the

633
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:16,240
classification so he said so basically

634
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:18,970
he's saying it it's classified like top

635
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,210
secret for example he's never been to

636
00:33:25,889 --> 00:33:23,440
FOIA officer he's

637
00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:25,899
going to know that all he's just going

638
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:27,929
to hear is we don't have those logs I

639
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:33,460
thought that was I thought that was kind

640
00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:35,289
of against the Freedom of Information

641
00:33:44,009 --> 00:33:38,980
Act but maybe I just don't know enough

642
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:44,019
about that I thought that so once hit

643
00:33:48,299 --> 00:33:46,690
something hits classified that it's just

644
00:33:52,259 --> 00:33:48,309
pulled out of the loop and you have to

645
00:33:54,899 --> 00:33:52,269
wait until after that changes say you

646
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:54,909
know 25 years later or 50 years later or

647
00:34:01,680 --> 00:33:58,450
something right yes it's classified work

648
00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:01,690
secret of its top secret they don't have

649
00:34:07,379 --> 00:34:05,350
to give you in other words they don't

650
00:34:13,859 --> 00:34:07,389
even have to acknowledge that it exists

651
00:34:16,889 --> 00:34:13,869
at all I'm not sure if they have to

652
00:34:19,859 --> 00:34:16,899
acknowledge exists at all but I know it

653
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:19,869
is a practice to just say it doesn't

654
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:22,240
exist does not exist even though it does

655
00:34:30,059 --> 00:34:25,210
hmm I've done enough for years I just

656
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:30,069
see that happen now sometimes what I

657
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:34,000
think happens also Martin is it's a lot

658
00:34:39,089 --> 00:34:35,530
of work for them to go find this

659
00:34:42,329 --> 00:34:39,099
information right and in some cases they

660
00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:42,339
just say hey you know I don't want to

661
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:45,720
mess with that we all have the data or

662
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:48,730
week I've heard I've heard replies that

663
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:54,490
we can't find it right which sounds even

664
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:57,490
more suspicious that's actually what my

665
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:00,640
appeal was so for example when I

666
00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:07,240
appealed one of the foyers my first

667
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:10,540
appeal was just turned down they just

668
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:12,790
said nope we agree because you're really

669
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:16,510
appealing to the Navy just to higher up

670
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:19,839
you're appealing to Jack which is the

671
00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:23,040
Navy's basically there's legal arm and

672
00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:28,180
so they just said no we we agreed that

673
00:35:31,470 --> 00:35:29,980
they they've done a reasonable search

674
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:31,480
and that's all I have to do is a

675
00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:33,790
reasonable search and so then they give

676
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:37,030
you the legal cases that support

677
00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:38,710
you know what defines the reasonable

678
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:42,030
search so then I sent back a second

679
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:45,690
appeal on another one of the foyers and

680
00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:48,730
I noticed on the email it was the same

681
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:51,430
jag officers that we're going to

682
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:54,010
evaluate that one so I sent them an

683
00:36:00,300 --> 00:35:57,250
additional email where I basically I

684
00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:00,310
said I understand your first argument

685
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,550
and there's some validity to that I said

686
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:06,960
however in this case what I'm arguing is

687
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:10,180
you've got five different Navy assets

688
00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:13,810
right and you're going to tell me this

689
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:15,940
it's reasonable that you can't find

690
00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:18,520
documents on any of five Navy assets

691
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:21,460
that were in a UH Navy exercise on that

692
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:26,050
day and so this time after I sent that

693
00:36:30,690 --> 00:36:28,030
to them they said well we'll take that

694
00:36:32,130 --> 00:36:30,700
into consideration so I think they said

695
00:36:33,150 --> 00:36:32,140
okay we got to throw this guy a bone

696
00:36:36,270 --> 00:36:33,160
yeah

697
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:36,280
so they they sent me back a report a

698
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:39,490
partial this time they give me partial

699
00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:42,790
acceptance on my appeal and they sent me

700
00:36:48,990 --> 00:36:46,150
some e-mails back and I was really

701
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:49,000
surprised that these guys sent me these

702
00:36:57,089 --> 00:36:54,700
emails via this email the first one and

703
00:37:01,650 --> 00:36:57,099
I open up and I'm looking and it's from

704
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:01,660
a lieutenant colonel and they have sent

705
00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:05,890
the Jag officers have asked him have you

706
00:37:17,010 --> 00:37:09,390
ever heard this case bla bla bla right

707
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:17,020
his response is oh the tic-tacs yeah we

708
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:21,130
know all about the tic tacs and I'm just

709
00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:23,710
like wow so okay so now they're

710
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:27,220
admitting that this happened and then

711
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,329
another lieutenant colonel

712
00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:38,800
this guy was my second guy he was a

713
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:42,420
zombie Carl he was a major and he said

714
00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:44,890
well we don't have these documents

715
00:37:50,340 --> 00:37:47,800
because there you know there are over

716
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:50,350
ten years old and how

717
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:54,010
so they would be in the archives and so

718
00:37:59,010 --> 00:37:57,010
then he ended he writes at his email I'm

719
00:38:00,900 --> 00:37:59,020
sure you can find a point of contact

720
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:00,910
that could find the documents in the

721
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:05,440
archives for mr. Powell and so of course

722
00:38:11,730 --> 00:38:09,970
I've since sent them another appeal that

723
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:11,740
I want them to go search the archives

724
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:13,330
because I think all they did initially

725
00:38:17,490 --> 00:38:15,490
is they just asked the squadron's

726
00:38:19,650 --> 00:38:17,500
hey do you have these documents from the

727
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:19,660
year 2004 well no they don't have

728
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:22,720
documents a squadron seconds documents

729
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:25,450
at home so they never really went looked

730
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:28,930
in the archives so that I'm that appeal

731
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:31,630
still out outstanding it's been it's

732
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:36,640
almost two months old now and I know a

733
00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:39,970
lot I go ahead mark no doubt that this

734
00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:44,350
happened you know the event happened

735
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:52,560
Navy the Navy Inspector General actually

736
00:38:57,390 --> 00:38:54,910
investigated the case but I can't prove

737
00:39:00,810 --> 00:38:57,400
that but that's all hearsay from what

738
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:00,820
I've heard so far so now I played up on

739
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:03,040
YouTube I played the video that it shows

740
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:07,270
online is that a thick video do you know

741
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:09,060
anything about that

742
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:14,770
okay familiar with the video it's we

743
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:17,890
don't know for certain that that is the

744
00:39:24,860 --> 00:39:21,250
video that was taken by the f-18 what we

745
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:24,870
do know is that the f-18s did take video

746
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:30,400
because in my foyer reply that's noted

747
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:33,520
in the lieutenant Colonel's email he

748
00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:37,570
said we a lot of us saw the video so

749
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:39,880
apparently these guys got the video and

750
00:39:45,620 --> 00:39:42,400
they were playing it among the other you

751
00:39:50,010 --> 00:39:45,630
know various officers on board the ship

752
00:39:53,070 --> 00:39:50,020
so we know video exists what I don't

753
00:39:55,350 --> 00:39:53,080
know for certain is is the video that

754
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:55,360
was released on the Internet

755
00:40:00,920 --> 00:39:57,570
and that video was actually released in

756
00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:04,860
and so various people made arguments

757
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:09,190
oh if maybe it's a fake video because it

758
00:40:17,310 --> 00:40:13,770
was released on a German video a German

759
00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:17,320
media video type site you know that

760
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:22,060
makes movies and things hmm so whether

761
00:40:30,780 --> 00:40:26,560
or not that is the video I can't say for

762
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:30,790
certain I actually suspect it is a copy

763
00:40:36,930 --> 00:40:32,800
of the original video and the reason I

764
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:36,940
say that is the the altitude that's

765
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:39,730
shown on the video of 20,000 feet is

766
00:40:46,050 --> 00:40:43,050
same altitude approximately that the

767
00:40:49,740 --> 00:40:46,060
commanding officer of the f-18 said they

768
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:49,750
were at when they encountered the what

769
00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:53,290
he called the tic tacs so I suspect that

770
00:40:59,580 --> 00:40:56,260
is you know but we don't know for

771
00:41:01,860 --> 00:40:59,590
certain and to me what's the most

772
00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:01,870
important important part about this case

773
00:41:09,930 --> 00:41:06,160
is not whether that video is the you

774
00:41:12,510 --> 00:41:09,940
know is the real video or not to me the

775
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:12,520
important part of the case is that we've

776
00:41:17,540 --> 00:41:15,130
got testimony from Navy and Marine

777
00:41:21,390 --> 00:41:17,550
officers that this event happened and

778
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:21,400
those f-18s were sent off of the Nimitz

779
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:23,770
to intercept this object and they and

780
00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:27,490
the lead f-18 it was a commanding

781
00:41:36,860 --> 00:41:31,840
officer engaged the object with his

782
00:41:40,590 --> 00:41:36,870
aircraft so not to me that eliminates

783
00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:40,600
just about everything and my view is I

784
00:41:46,590 --> 00:41:43,390
just want to know you know why can't the

785
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:46,600
Navy just tell us what they know I don't

786
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:51,310
understand their need to hide that

787
00:41:58,490 --> 00:41:55,650
information yeah it's probably up above

788
00:42:02,490 --> 00:41:58,500
them who knows

789
00:42:04,860 --> 00:42:02,500
so did you actually speak to the

790
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:04,870
witnesses or was there you know was a

791
00:42:11,730 --> 00:42:09,520
communication in through email or or how

792
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:11,740
what happened then that when it comes to

793
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,490
the witnesses okay so the witnesses I

794
00:42:19,739 --> 00:42:16,960
have not

795
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:19,749
been in communication with any of the

796
00:42:26,430 --> 00:42:23,880
witnesses I do know an individual who

797
00:42:28,459 --> 00:42:26,440
contacted me in actually making an

798
00:42:33,539 --> 00:42:28,469
occasion with lieutenant colonel Cerf

799
00:42:36,509 --> 00:42:33,549
didn't remember he was the marine who

800
00:42:40,829 --> 00:42:36,519
was in the first f-18 that all he saw

801
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:40,839
was the water disturbance mm-hmm well so

802
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:43,690
he called Lieutenant Colonel Kurtz and

803
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,380
he said that was very polite

804
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:48,640
conversation he said the gentleman spoke

805
00:42:57,059 --> 00:42:54,880
very slowly very distinctly and you know

806
00:43:01,829 --> 00:42:57,069
he was very confident and everything

807
00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:01,839
said and he said that well this is

808
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:02,380
interesting

809
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:06,390
first thing you he found out was that

810
00:43:11,509 --> 00:43:08,650
Lieutenant Colonel Kurth actually worked

811
00:43:14,329 --> 00:43:11,519
for Bigelow after he left the service

812
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,339
and of course we all know Bigelow's

813
00:43:19,950 --> 00:43:17,200
interest UFOs right now whether or not

814
00:43:23,069 --> 00:43:19,960
that's coincidence or a part of the

815
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,079
reason he was initially hired you know

816
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:25,920
there's no way to know but in his

817
00:43:32,849 --> 00:43:29,650
conversation the Lieutenant Colonel did

818
00:43:36,989 --> 00:43:32,859
say that he could not comment any

819
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:36,999
further on the case because of his prior

820
00:43:42,809 --> 00:43:39,729
job agreement you know with Bigelow

821
00:43:46,589 --> 00:43:42,819
industries hmm so I thought that was

822
00:43:49,709 --> 00:43:46,599
interesting that is so what is what is

823
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:49,719
the protocol for like to say you're

824
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:53,170
investigating this case and you see the

825
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,049
person's name that wrote that blog and

826
00:44:02,130 --> 00:43:58,960
you are actually able to get a

827
00:44:03,660 --> 00:44:02,140
connection to contact that person what

828
00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:03,670
is a protocol for doing something like

829
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:04,440
that

830
00:44:13,259 --> 00:44:09,130
well I'm myself I'm somewhat leery on

831
00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:13,269
that right because I just hate intruding

832
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:15,660
on someone's private life hmm

833
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:18,609
you know the guy who contacted with

834
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:20,410
Colonel Lieutenant Colonel Kurtz I guess

835
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:26,079
was not as it wasn't his big issue for

836
00:44:36,110 --> 00:44:31,850
and most of these guys like for example

837
00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:36,120
the the commanding officer of the f18

838
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:40,860
that engaged who was lieutenant was

839
00:44:48,830 --> 00:44:44,610
commander David Freiburger of the Black

840
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:48,840
Aces which is name of his stuff super

841
00:44:55,820 --> 00:44:53,220
hornet group i've i was able to

842
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:55,830
determine where he lived and he had just

843
00:45:02,200 --> 00:44:58,500
just moved within I think a month of

844
00:45:06,590 --> 00:45:02,210
when I determined it and so I sent him a

845
00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:06,600
registered letter certified letter so

846
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:10,440
they would come back you know if he

847
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:14,250
would if he you know if if it picked up

848
00:45:18,910 --> 00:45:15,630
where he'd moved to if he'd done a

849
00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:18,920
change of address or whatever mm-hmm and

850
00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:22,110
yeah I never received a letter back or a

851
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:24,390
reply and yeah I'm just tend to realize

852
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:26,220
a polite letter a lot of these guys

853
00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:28,530
after they get out of the military they

854
00:45:35,810 --> 00:45:31,500
work in the defense industry mm-hmm and

855
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:35,820
you know the UFO topic is what I say

856
00:45:46,220 --> 00:45:40,890
it's like the great I love you know the

857
00:45:47,810 --> 00:45:46,230
quote the great taboo mm-hmm it's not

858
00:45:49,610 --> 00:45:47,820
like you know I don't think it's like

859
00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:49,620
someone's that okay you can't you know

860
00:45:55,340 --> 00:45:51,990
don't ever talk about UFOs but it's like

861
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:55,350
if you're in that industry and you did

862
00:45:58,820 --> 00:45:56,700
talk about it it's almost like you

863
00:46:01,760 --> 00:45:58,830
you're talking about a ghost right like

864
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:01,770
it's almost like oh I saw a ghost this

865
00:46:05,090 --> 00:46:03,060
morning yeah walked right across my

866
00:46:08,690 --> 00:46:05,100
living room I mean you get the same kind

867
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:08,700
of reaction about I think it's

868
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:10,260
interesting that Bob Bigelow for one

869
00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:13,530
it's not too afraid to talk about it no

870
00:46:17,060 --> 00:46:14,670
no he's not

871
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:17,070
of course I guess he has he's the guy

872
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:20,370
that does the hiring right so yeah he

873
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:21,960
doesn't have to have any fear about his

874
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:28,710
job but I think most other yeah other

875
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:31,380
guys do have concerns about talking

876
00:46:37,820 --> 00:46:33,270
about that's a lot of the reason why a

877
00:46:40,310 --> 00:46:37,830
lot of the times military guys that talk

878
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:40,320
about it they they've been retired and

879
00:46:47,090 --> 00:46:42,530
are in there you know 70

880
00:46:52,010 --> 00:46:47,100
mm-hmm right no one's gonna really

881
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:52,020
bother them at this point so it's after

882
00:46:57,410 --> 00:46:55,800
it's after the hour and I'm going to put

883
00:47:02,060 --> 00:46:57,420
out there that if anyone wants to call

884
00:47:03,850 --> 00:47:02,070
in and ask our guests some questions and

885
00:47:06,590 --> 00:47:03,860
you're alive and watching on YouTube

886
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:06,600
you'll see the number underneath in the

887
00:47:14,270 --> 00:47:12,090
description it's 6:03 nine six seven 403

888
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:14,280
oh if you'd like to call in and ask our

889
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:18,510
guest a question so where do you think

890
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,380
this particular case where do you think

891
00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:24,480
it's going to go do you think some more

892
00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:26,990
more people will be engaged eventually

893
00:47:33,590 --> 00:47:31,380
in talking about the incident yeah I

894
00:47:36,350 --> 00:47:33,600
think I think there will be more

895
00:47:39,350 --> 00:47:36,360
information that comes out on the case I

896
00:47:42,770 --> 00:47:39,360
was talking to Chris Mellon and you know

897
00:47:47,210 --> 00:47:42,780
Chris is part of the belongs to the

898
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:47,220
Stars group yeah yeah I've known Chris I

899
00:47:55,460 --> 00:47:50,550
guess probably four years I have not met

900
00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:55,470
him in person but he say what I consider

901
00:48:01,970 --> 00:47:58,440
him a fairly conservative person in

902
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:01,980
terms of his views on the UFO phenomenon

903
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:07,370
so he's pretty down-to-earth on it and

904
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:11,670
he indicated to me that they would have

905
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:13,590
more they had more information on this

906
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:18,720
particular case so it will be

907
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:21,270
interesting to see if he has them you

908
00:48:26,060 --> 00:48:23,970
know some additional information now he

909
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:26,070
was an in office when this was happening

910
00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:27,770
but you know I know how

911
00:48:33,010 --> 00:48:30,420
compartmentalized everything is I'm sure

912
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:33,020
he probably never knew anything about it

913
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:35,850
actually he told me he had heard about

914
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:36,420
it

915
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:41,930
really Wow yeah and you know he he was

916
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:46,200
he was confident that it had occurred he

917
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:48,420
didn't know that at that time when I

918
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:50,910
talked to him about this I first talked

919
00:49:00,360 --> 00:48:56,720
well not too long after I found out in

920
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:00,370
mid-2016 mm-hmm and he was confident at

921
00:49:04,350 --> 00:49:02,110
that point this is long before you know

922
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:04,360
that the to the stars group had been

923
00:49:10,590 --> 00:49:07,630
formed right and at a point in time he

924
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:10,600
was confident that this had happened and

925
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:12,730
he was aware of the four years I was

926
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:16,450
going to be sending out and you know he

927
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:18,190
was supported he was supportive of all

928
00:49:24,930 --> 00:49:23,170
that but now he clearly has gotten some

929
00:49:30,270 --> 00:49:24,940
more information within the last six

930
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:30,280
months so I I suspect that there's

931
00:49:37,590 --> 00:49:33,850
someone on their team who had access to

932
00:49:39,810 --> 00:49:37,600
additional information on this case now

933
00:49:41,580 --> 00:49:39,820
you hear over and I think in the chat

934
00:49:44,370 --> 00:49:41,590
room we had this happen people are

935
00:49:47,490 --> 00:49:44,380
saying you know the Tom DeLonge Nimitz

936
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:47,500
case how do you think that just happened

937
00:49:59,160 --> 00:49:51,130
because it was announced on that you

938
00:50:01,050 --> 00:49:59,170
know the the broadcast that he did yeah

939
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:01,060
I'm sure you've heard a lot of people

940
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:04,240
call this a Tom DeLonge case have you I

941
00:50:08,070 --> 00:50:05,890
mean I've seen that everywhere and

942
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:08,080
someone mentioned it earlier in the chat

943
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:09,970
room oh that's that video that Tom

944
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:12,730
DeLonge had something to do with it it

945
00:50:18,510 --> 00:50:15,420
has really nothing to do with him at all

946
00:50:21,330 --> 00:50:18,520
but it just came out Chris Mel and I

947
00:50:22,740 --> 00:50:21,340
know talked about it right yeah it

948
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:22,750
really has nothing to do with Tom

949
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:26,650
DeLonge Chris you know it talked about

950
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:28,450
it like I said you know Chris knew about

951
00:50:34,580 --> 00:50:32,710
it I know back in 2016 and like I told

952
00:50:37,650 --> 00:50:34,590
you when I found out about it in

953
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:37,660
mid-2016 the individual that told me

954
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:40,570
about it had a lot more information and

955
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:43,530
what's been released because he had a

956
00:50:49,830 --> 00:50:48,400
half inch file and he told me I mean he

957
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:49,840
told me things about the case that

958
00:50:57,050 --> 00:50:52,720
haven't even been that I haven't seen in

959
00:51:03,210 --> 00:50:57,060
the foyers and they're not in anywhere

960
00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:03,220
for for example he indicated to me that

961
00:51:11,870 --> 00:51:06,510
the the Navy guys

962
00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:11,880
were debriefed by and I and it was not

963
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:15,420
clear to me if they were debriefed by

964
00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:18,510
someone within the Navy or whether they

965
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,240
were outside the Navy and my gut feel

966
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:24,000
was they may have been from outside the

967
00:51:33,110 --> 00:51:31,440
Navy hmm there's no doubt in my mind

968
00:51:35,180 --> 00:51:33,120
that there's more information out there

969
00:51:38,770 --> 00:51:35,190
just whether or not you know it's this

970
00:51:42,050 --> 00:51:38,780
is one those time will tell right and

971
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:42,060
you know if the to the Stars groups has

972
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:45,450
more information then hopefully we'll

973
00:51:52,100 --> 00:51:48,180
see something within you know a short

974
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:52,110
period of time right how long did this

975
00:52:02,810 --> 00:51:56,880
event go on for well my understanding is

976
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:02,820
it went on for several days actual event

977
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:05,880
on November 14 that prior to that there

978
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:08,310
had been the radar guys were picking it

979
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:14,280
up so this has been for several days a

980
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:16,740
couple of other things interesting that

981
00:52:22,580 --> 00:52:20,730
happen is both the marine and the Navy

982
00:52:26,780 --> 00:52:22,590
pilots were asked if they had any

983
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:26,790
ordnance on board and both both of us

984
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:29,160
said no they didn't so I just thought

985
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:32,640
that's interesting that they would even

986
00:52:40,670 --> 00:52:37,110
be asked back ordnance meaning what

987
00:52:42,770 --> 00:52:40,680
weapons mm-hmm yeah Wow so they were

988
00:52:46,580 --> 00:52:42,780
thinking a possible self-defense it

989
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:46,590
sounds like well I don't know that the

990
00:52:57,740 --> 00:52:49,530
work that was just you know last time I

991
00:53:01,040 --> 00:52:57,750
those guy so how far off of the shore

992
00:53:03,980 --> 00:53:01,050
did this actually happened about 70

993
00:53:05,810 --> 00:53:03,990
miles southwest of San Diego and it

994
00:53:10,580 --> 00:53:05,820
really that's really kind of Kara

995
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:10,590
makes you wonder you know thinking what

996
00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:12,420
the Catalina island's those are off of

997
00:53:18,980 --> 00:53:15,180
LA right I mean there's really nothing

998
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:18,990
out 70 miles out just ocean yeah yeah

999
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:20,250
they were just doing

1000
00:53:27,140 --> 00:53:25,050
the terrier attack group 11 which is the

1001
00:53:30,050 --> 00:53:27,150
Nimitz is the main aircraft carrier for

1002
00:53:31,490 --> 00:53:30,060
that and so it was involved the

1003
00:53:34,550 --> 00:53:31,500
Princeton

1004
00:53:37,099 --> 00:53:34,560
there was a submarine the USS can't

1005
00:53:40,130 --> 00:53:37,109
recall if it was the USS Louisville I

1006
00:53:42,380 --> 00:53:40,140
can give the Louisville but it was not

1007
00:53:47,660 --> 00:53:42,390
involved in deciding it was just part of

1008
00:53:52,099 --> 00:53:47,670
that carrier group someone I spoke to

1009
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,109
recently was suggesting that you know

1010
00:53:58,250 --> 00:53:54,480
with all this activity in you know

1011
00:54:01,940 --> 00:53:58,260
toward North Korea out with all the

1012
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:01,950
activity in the Navy vessels that

1013
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:04,770
there's probably or most likely it was

1014
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:06,690
so much just speculating that there's

1015
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:10,530
probably sightings and you know you do

1016
00:54:16,670 --> 00:54:14,490
hear about activity during you know some

1017
00:54:20,540 --> 00:54:16,680
type of war or event

1018
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:20,550
it just seems it seems like there

1019
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:22,680
there's some type of Attraction going on

1020
00:54:27,710 --> 00:54:25,170
there yep

1021
00:54:31,550 --> 00:54:27,720
I mean this is just kind of from

1022
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:31,560
experience it's not it's not like full

1023
00:54:37,550 --> 00:54:33,960
update up that just from everything I've

1024
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:37,560
ever done and read and research and just

1025
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:40,410
my experience has been that things like

1026
00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:44,430
if you wanted to attract a UFO sighting

1027
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:46,020
the best way to do it to have a large

1028
00:54:52,609 --> 00:54:49,500
military operation and it just seems to

1029
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:52,619
attract because there's there's too many

1030
00:55:02,440 --> 00:54:57,290
cases in history where you know a

1031
00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:02,450
military training exercise sites UFOs

1032
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:04,950
absolutely you know which i think is

1033
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:06,050
really fascinating

1034
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:08,730
I've told on this show a number of

1035
00:55:12,140 --> 00:55:10,530
different times that I talked to someone

1036
00:55:15,010 --> 00:55:12,150
in Vietnam that said there were

1037
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,020
sightings you know he's part of a

1038
00:55:20,089 --> 00:55:17,760
supposedly according to himself this was

1039
00:55:21,770 --> 00:55:20,099
many years ago he told me he was part of

1040
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,780
a special group in the Air Force that

1041
00:55:29,380 --> 00:55:24,240
was investigating you know sightings

1042
00:55:33,799 --> 00:55:29,390
during a lot of the conflicts so yeah

1043
00:55:38,479 --> 00:55:33,809
yeah very fun a large number those

1044
00:55:42,019 --> 00:55:38,489
one believe this in 1964 and it was near

1045
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:42,029
where the Aguadilla case happened it was

1046
00:55:49,069 --> 00:55:45,660
the USS Gantt and there was a military

1047
00:55:51,729 --> 00:55:49,079
exercise it's in Project Blue Book so

1048
00:55:54,829 --> 00:55:51,739
these are documented by the Air Force

1049
00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:54,839
even they even had the object on radar

1050
00:56:02,589 --> 00:55:59,400
and the images of the radar available

1051
00:56:05,529 --> 00:56:02,599
Project Blue Book

1052
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:05,539
so there's definitely an object there

1053
00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:08,249
and it was cited by both the Air Force

1054
00:56:16,699 --> 00:56:12,049
and the Navy and it was just during a

1055
00:56:18,229 --> 00:56:16,709
naval exercise hmm which is what this

1056
00:56:20,749 --> 00:56:18,239
was off of the coast of California

1057
00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:20,759
because they were going through

1058
00:56:25,370 --> 00:56:23,369
exercises because the USS Nimitz the

1059
00:56:29,089 --> 00:56:25,380
next year was sent to Iraq

1060
00:56:30,739 --> 00:56:29,099
so it was you know was out in the I

1061
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:30,749
don't remember if it's in the

1062
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:34,049
Mediterranean or in the Persian Gulf but

1063
00:56:41,329 --> 00:56:37,130
it was in it went out into that arena

1064
00:56:43,459 --> 00:56:41,339
now this is one of the I don't know what

1065
00:56:45,229 --> 00:56:43,469
the right term for it is but it's one of

1066
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:45,239
the super carriers or something like

1067
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:49,249
that isn't it yes it's a nuclear carrier

1068
00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:52,170
yeah I believe if I'm correct it's the

1069
00:56:57,469 --> 00:56:55,380
first of the Nimitz class nuclear attack

1070
00:57:00,709 --> 00:56:57,479
carriers Wow

1071
00:57:06,709 --> 00:57:00,719
back in the late 70s I was in the San

1072
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:06,719
Diego area and I went out and some I was

1073
00:57:13,999 --> 00:57:12,209
at a park with my girlfriend up and was

1074
00:57:16,009 --> 00:57:14,009
invited with you know from these Navy

1075
00:57:18,229 --> 00:57:16,019
guys they said hey come you know check

1076
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:18,239
out we're on this carrier and I can't

1077
00:57:23,179 --> 00:57:20,910
remember the name of it I have never

1078
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:23,189
seen anything like that in my life the

1079
00:57:31,009 --> 00:57:26,880
thing was just like so huge I just

1080
00:57:36,439 --> 00:57:31,019
couldn't even imagine it yeah like five

1081
00:57:40,269 --> 00:57:36,449
thousand guys right and I remember you

1082
00:57:43,279 --> 00:57:40,279
know they have you know we walk by this

1083
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:43,289
I don't want to say building a

1084
00:57:47,630 --> 00:57:45,569
compartment I guess all set up for

1085
00:57:50,810 --> 00:57:47,640
machine shop he says we can replace all

1086
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,820
anything that breaks in the entire ship

1087
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,040
right out of here you know to lit out

1088
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:55,920
which is fascinating they're so

1089
00:58:02,510 --> 00:57:59,760
self-sufficient and 5000 people that's

1090
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:02,520
you know a small I mean not quite a city

1091
00:58:08,780 --> 00:58:04,770
but it's a it's a large town

1092
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:08,790
yeah the people and the way they can

1093
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:10,890
just scramble the Jets so quickly is

1094
00:58:16,130 --> 00:58:13,850
it's fascinating how all that works

1095
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:16,140
bring them up in the elevators and all

1096
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,710
that so are there any other cases you

1097
00:58:26,300 --> 00:58:24,480
know you mentioned earlier the one in

1098
00:58:29,180 --> 00:58:26,310
Puerto Rico that there was a military

1099
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:29,190
operation as there other ones you know

1100
00:58:35,060 --> 00:58:31,170
similar to this that you're familiar

1101
00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:35,070
with well there's another one I can tell

1102
00:58:40,970 --> 00:58:38,190
you a little bit about that it's a very

1103
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:40,980
interesting case and this one also

1104
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:44,250
happened this one happens actually 2013

1105
00:58:49,820 --> 00:58:47,040
so it's more it's about the same

1106
00:58:50,060 --> 00:58:49,830
timeframe is the Aguadilla or a RICO

1107
00:58:58,910 --> 00:58:50,070
case

1108
00:59:00,830 --> 00:58:58,920
because hey Robert

1109
00:59:03,830 --> 00:59:00,840
which would you mind would you mind

1110
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:03,840
holding that thought just for a minute

1111
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:05,220
we'll get right back to that and we'll

1112
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:07,050
talk about this case I promise the

1113
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:08,610
listener and you but we have a caller

1114
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:14,610
calling in I'd like to take ok ok caller

1115
00:59:21,020 --> 00:59:16,650
welcome to the show your first name and

1116
00:59:24,590 --> 00:59:21,030
where you're calling from can you hear

1117
00:59:26,170 --> 00:59:24,600
me call her yeah hi there we first name

1118
00:59:29,660 --> 00:59:26,180
where you're calling from

1119
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:29,670
I'm Ryan I'm calling from South Carolina

1120
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:34,770
call Ryan again yes oh nice pickup it's

1121
00:59:38,450 --> 00:59:36,570
been a couple weeks yeah how about that

1122
00:59:42,290 --> 00:59:38,460
how you doing Ryan you have a question

1123
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:42,300
for our guest yes I do I hope I didn't

1124
00:59:47,390 --> 00:59:44,490
call it sounded like you're about to get

1125
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:47,400
into some well remember we'll get back

1126
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:49,530
into it we're leaving the listener and

1127
00:59:58,130 --> 00:59:55,050
suspense okay I just had a quick

1128
00:59:59,530 --> 00:59:58,140
question of some of the evidence

1129
01:00:02,140 --> 00:59:59,540
presented has to do

1130
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,150
with radar sightings or something like

1131
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:04,640
that I've always wanted to ask a radar

1132
01:00:10,510 --> 01:00:08,570
expert this with regard to UFOs how how

1133
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:10,520
reliable would you consider it I mean

1134
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:15,050
I've talked to whether people software

1135
01:00:21,420 --> 01:00:17,090
people and they've all said that you

1136
01:00:24,070 --> 01:00:21,430
know relying on radar for UFO sightings

1137
01:00:26,770 --> 01:00:24,080
might be an issue at times because you

1138
01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:26,780
know radar there are radar anomalies

1139
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:29,990
associated whether there are software

1140
01:00:33,070 --> 01:00:31,510
problems that cause you know

1141
01:00:35,650 --> 01:00:33,080
misinterpretation of the data

1142
01:00:37,810 --> 01:00:35,660
what's his at then you know you know the

1143
01:00:41,830 --> 01:00:37,820
possibility of some UFO is being just

1144
01:00:44,410 --> 01:00:41,840
simply radar anomalies yeah that's

1145
01:00:46,270 --> 01:00:44,420
that's a good question Ryan and there I

1146
01:00:49,420 --> 01:00:46,280
know what you're talking about there for

1147
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:49,430
example you can have a radar beam that

1148
01:00:57,340 --> 01:00:52,490
bounces off an inverted atmospheric air

1149
01:00:59,380 --> 01:00:57,350
layer right and so the you get in what

1150
01:01:02,140 --> 01:00:59,390
you think is an object and it's actually

1151
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:02,150
just a the beam bouncing off a cloud or

1152
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:07,130
an inverted area in this particular case

1153
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:10,010
the one we were talking about my

1154
01:01:14,590 --> 01:01:12,650
understanding is that the spy-1 system

1155
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:14,600
which is what is the name of the radar

1156
01:01:24,090 --> 01:01:17,440
system that the USS Princeton was using

1157
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:24,100
operate at various radar wavelength

1158
01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:28,370
simultaneously so it's not a it's not

1159
01:01:34,570 --> 01:01:31,280
just a one it's not like you just send a

1160
01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:34,580
beam out at 2.4 gigahertz and it comes

1161
01:01:39,490 --> 01:01:36,440
back I mean they're sending out a spread

1162
01:01:42,750 --> 01:01:39,500
across you know various wavelengths so

1163
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:42,760
they likelihood that you would get a

1164
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:46,850
false return is less and then if you add

1165
01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:50,540
to it that this early this airborne

1166
01:01:55,300 --> 01:01:52,270
early warning aircraft

1167
01:01:58,510 --> 01:01:55,310
he's also detecting the object at the

1168
01:02:00,850 --> 01:01:58,520
same location so now that that makes it

1169
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:00,860
kind of problematic because you've got a

1170
01:02:07,150 --> 01:02:03,440
Navy ship and you've got an aircraft

1171
01:02:11,020 --> 01:02:07,160
that are two different locations and in

1172
01:02:13,230 --> 01:02:11,030
order to create a bogey your bogey is

1173
01:02:18,789 --> 01:02:13,240
gonna have to bounce the beam

1174
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:18,799
incorrectly to both ship and aircraft if

1175
01:02:26,470 --> 01:02:22,490
the same you know XYZ coordinate in the

1176
01:02:29,230 --> 01:02:26,480
atmosphere now you can do that if you're

1177
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:29,240
doing it intentionally right like if

1178
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:37,130
you're you're trying to basically hide

1179
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:41,359
you know if this is a US for example I'm

1180
01:02:45,759 --> 01:02:43,250
pretty sure the US has the ability to

1181
01:02:49,210 --> 01:02:45,769
make an aircraft show up on someone's

1182
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:49,220
radar screen and if you so you can

1183
01:02:54,460 --> 01:02:52,250
intentionally do that but I don't think

1184
01:02:59,230 --> 01:02:54,470
that could happen you know by accident

1185
01:03:01,900 --> 01:02:59,240
and if this is an unknown right we we

1186
01:03:06,099 --> 01:03:01,910
just make the assumption that the

1187
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:06,109
unknown is is not trying to fool the

1188
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:11,690
radar systems yeah one of the things

1189
01:03:16,299 --> 01:03:14,480
that I have to admit I've always been

1190
01:03:19,930 --> 01:03:16,309
amazed by some of these radar reports

1191
01:03:23,259 --> 01:03:19,940
and sometimes the tracked object will be

1192
01:03:25,420 --> 01:03:23,269
going faster than the plane chasing it

1193
01:03:27,730 --> 01:03:25,430
and I just always wondered if they're

1194
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:27,740
you know playing devil's advocate here

1195
01:03:32,259 --> 01:03:30,170
is there the radar anomaly that can

1196
01:03:34,420 --> 01:03:32,269
produce that you know say we're just

1197
01:03:38,319 --> 01:03:34,430
talking hit being tracked about one

1198
01:03:40,749 --> 01:03:38,329
object as opposed to multiple yeah in

1199
01:03:43,210 --> 01:03:40,759
you know I mean I'm I've got a fair

1200
01:03:46,359 --> 01:03:43,220
amount of experience analyzing radar but

1201
01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:46,369
I'm not a radar expert but from what I

1202
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:48,950
do know I think you would have you would

1203
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:54,170
be hard-pressed to have a false radar

1204
01:04:00,519 --> 01:03:56,450
image that's moving in a straight line

1205
01:04:02,170 --> 01:04:00,529
at a high rate of speed and especially

1206
01:04:07,359 --> 01:04:02,180
if it and then it makes a certain a

1207
01:04:09,579 --> 01:04:07,369
sudden turn I would expect the radar the

1208
01:04:13,180 --> 01:04:09,589
false radar image to mostly kind of sit

1209
01:04:15,609 --> 01:04:13,190
there because it's continually bouncing

1210
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:15,619
yeah and it might make maybe it might

1211
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:20,089
make a sudden jump right because maybe

1212
01:04:25,420 --> 01:04:22,490
you're false if you're looking like it

1213
01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:25,430
inverted atmospheric layer it might look

1214
01:04:28,839 --> 01:04:26,900
like it's sitting there right

1215
01:04:32,019 --> 01:04:28,849
because you're bouncing off and then

1216
01:04:33,519 --> 01:04:32,029
maybe the atmosphere changes a little

1217
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:33,529
bit so now you don't bounce off that

1218
01:04:37,269 --> 01:04:34,970
area the beam goes a little farther and

1219
01:04:40,089 --> 01:04:37,279
bounces off a different area so it looks

1220
01:04:41,740 --> 01:04:40,099
like something jumps someplace but I

1221
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:41,750
don't think you'd see a straight line

1222
01:04:47,410 --> 01:04:44,000
you know in other words because your

1223
01:04:50,079 --> 01:04:47,420
radar is usually turning every three to

1224
01:04:51,579 --> 01:04:50,089
ten seconds so I don't think you would

1225
01:04:56,620 --> 01:04:51,589
see something moving for example a

1226
01:05:00,420 --> 01:04:56,630
straight line if it was what they call I

1227
01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:00,430
guess the colors a radar rabbit I think

1228
01:05:05,890 --> 01:05:02,990
all right well hey Ryan thanks for the

1229
01:05:08,230 --> 01:05:05,900
call hey thanks for having me all right

1230
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:08,240
all right take care thank you

1231
01:05:13,170 --> 01:05:10,130
so just along those lines before we get

1232
01:05:16,839 --> 01:05:13,180
back into the story you know in 1952

1233
01:05:21,010 --> 01:05:16,849
with the sightings over the Capitol and

1234
01:05:24,099 --> 01:05:21,020
in Washington DC I believe they tried to

1235
01:05:27,789 --> 01:05:24,109
debunk that or you know the I don't want

1236
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:27,799
to say debunk but they tried to come up

1237
01:05:33,309 --> 01:05:30,319
with an explanation of the radar and

1238
01:05:36,460 --> 01:05:33,319
they said that was inversions if I

1239
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:36,470
remember right yeah I think that was the

1240
01:05:43,150 --> 01:05:40,160
explanation for the 1952 sightings the

1241
01:05:45,970 --> 01:05:43,160
thing to me that makes that one less

1242
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:45,980
likely is that you have a visual

1243
01:05:52,029 --> 01:05:49,510
sighting along with the radar sighting

1244
01:05:56,579 --> 01:05:52,039
that probably your strongest type

1245
01:06:01,269 --> 01:05:56,589
sightings we had visual and radar are

1246
01:06:04,990 --> 01:06:01,279
b-47 case back in 1957 not only do you

1247
01:06:07,870 --> 01:06:05,000
have not only was there radar from the

1248
01:06:10,930 --> 01:06:07,880
RB 47 but there was radar on the ground

1249
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:10,940
detecting the object and there was a

1250
01:06:17,049 --> 01:06:14,960
visual sighting of the object yeah you

1251
01:06:20,279 --> 01:06:17,059
know so I interrupted you in the middle

1252
01:06:22,569 --> 01:06:20,289
of a story and I always I always get

1253
01:06:25,599 --> 01:06:22,579
well I gotta say it I always get hate

1254
01:06:28,329 --> 01:06:25,609
mail when I do that so so I'm expecting

1255
01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:28,339
that but do you remember approximately

1256
01:06:30,819 --> 01:06:30,020
where you left off in that the story

1257
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:30,829
sure

1258
01:06:38,289 --> 01:06:35,599
okay great so okay this story is three

1259
01:06:40,029 --> 01:06:38,299
hunters they're hunting black bear up in

1260
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:40,039
Ontario and they're in the middle of

1261
01:06:42,970 --> 01:06:40,970
nowhere there's

1262
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:42,980
cellphone towers there's nothing wrong

1263
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:45,920
an old logging road so they're headed

1264
01:06:52,089 --> 01:06:48,490
down to this logging road they set up

1265
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:52,099
their their sites for where they're

1266
01:07:00,490 --> 01:06:56,810
gonna have the black bear it's about the

1267
01:07:01,390 --> 01:07:00,500
ground five six o'clock they shoot some

1268
01:07:07,540 --> 01:07:01,400
black bear

1269
01:07:09,790 --> 01:07:07,550
they video it and then they you know

1270
01:07:11,380 --> 01:07:09,800
they call on the radio to their other

1271
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:11,390
hunters because there's several groups

1272
01:07:15,940 --> 01:07:13,490
of hunters out on this area but there

1273
01:07:19,260 --> 01:07:15,950
are three right here so they call them

1274
01:07:22,630 --> 01:07:19,270
say hey we've got ours and so they're

1275
01:07:24,670 --> 01:07:22,640
getting ready to pack up and go meet the

1276
01:07:26,370 --> 01:07:24,680
other hunters so they put the black bear

1277
01:07:28,990 --> 01:07:26,380
on the back of a pickup truck and

1278
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:29,000
they're driving down the road by now

1279
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:31,490
it's about nine o'clock at night and

1280
01:07:36,310 --> 01:07:34,730
it's dark and there's nothing anywhere

1281
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:36,320
so there's no lights other than the

1282
01:07:40,900 --> 01:07:39,410
lights and pickup truck you got two guys

1283
01:07:44,550 --> 01:07:40,910
in the front of truck one guy in the

1284
01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:44,560
back the guy in the back happens to be a

1285
01:07:50,349 --> 01:07:47,270
research and development scientist that

1286
01:07:53,140 --> 01:07:50,359
has contracts at the DoD that's what

1287
01:07:56,890 --> 01:07:53,150
really excited me about this case hmm

1288
01:07:58,930 --> 01:07:56,900
so we've got a guy who's got a good head

1289
01:08:00,430 --> 01:07:58,940
on his shoulders and he's singing about

1290
01:08:03,099 --> 01:08:00,440
this pickup they're going down this

1291
01:08:06,790 --> 01:08:03,109
logging road and he sees these lights

1292
01:08:12,370 --> 01:08:06,800
approaching and he he told me his first

1293
01:08:14,020 --> 01:08:12,380
thought was what why would a helicopter

1294
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:14,030
because these things are moving slow

1295
01:08:19,450 --> 01:08:17,330
right it's low low altitude what's a

1296
01:08:21,459 --> 01:08:19,460
helicopter doing out here in the middle

1297
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:21,469
of nowhere 9:30 at night so he's not

1298
01:08:27,999 --> 01:08:26,210
feeling real good about this because no

1299
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:28,009
reason you'd have a helicopter out there

1300
01:08:32,740 --> 01:08:30,170
so they're continuing down the logging

1301
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:32,750
road and the lights continue in their

1302
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,330
direction until the lights is right in

1303
01:08:41,249 --> 01:08:37,520
front it's starting to cross the road in

1304
01:08:44,019 --> 01:08:41,259
front of them it's about 400 yards away

1305
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:44,029
if this at that point in time and he

1306
01:08:49,079 --> 01:08:46,370
tells the driver he says stop the truck

1307
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:49,089
and you know turn off your lights so

1308
01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:52,489
they did he does that and by now the

1309
01:08:57,019 --> 01:08:54,239
object is close enough

1310
01:09:00,769 --> 01:08:57,029
it's about 200 yards at this point in

1311
01:09:03,530 --> 01:09:00,779
time and he can tell this is no

1312
01:09:07,970 --> 01:09:03,540
helicopter and it's shaped like a

1313
01:09:09,740 --> 01:09:07,980
barbell like you took a disc if you know

1314
01:09:11,570 --> 01:09:09,750
your typical Flying Saucer disc on one

1315
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:11,580
side of the barbell put one on the other

1316
01:09:18,590 --> 01:09:13,859
side of the barbell and it's just

1317
01:09:21,519 --> 01:09:18,600
sitting there in the sky mm-hmm and the

1318
01:09:25,130 --> 01:09:21,529
first thing he does is he he grabs his

1319
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:25,140
camera that he video the black bear with

1320
01:09:30,170 --> 01:09:28,080
right and so he turns it on soon as he

1321
01:09:32,059 --> 01:09:30,180
turns it on it turns on for about one

1322
01:09:32,510 --> 01:09:32,069
second it turns right back off battery

1323
01:09:36,110 --> 01:09:32,520
dies

1324
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:36,120
click stop yeah turns it on turns right

1325
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:39,810
off then grabs his cell phone to use

1326
01:09:45,979 --> 01:09:43,049
that camera well cell phone he said is

1327
01:09:48,410 --> 01:09:45,989
hot and it's in it's acting as if

1328
01:09:53,300 --> 01:09:48,420
someone had just rebooted it so it's

1329
01:09:55,670 --> 01:09:53,310
it's not you know it's not live so now

1330
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,680
he doesn't have you know so he looks for

1331
01:10:02,180 --> 01:09:57,600
the next thing he can do he has his

1332
01:10:05,860 --> 01:10:02,190
hunting rifle which has a nine a a 9 X

1333
01:10:09,950 --> 01:10:05,870
50 millimeter scope on his hunting rifle

1334
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:09,960
so he he gets out of the truck and he

1335
01:10:15,260 --> 01:10:12,330
holds the hunting rifle on the on the

1336
01:10:19,370 --> 01:10:15,270
hood and he's basically just watching

1337
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:19,380
and everything this objects doing so

1338
01:10:29,570 --> 01:10:25,290
this so that your audience can visualize

1339
01:10:34,010 --> 01:10:29,580
this imagine the barbell and it it's got

1340
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:34,020
a plasma that's about 12 inches all the

1341
01:10:40,729 --> 01:10:36,450
way around it kind of an indigo colored

1342
01:10:43,550 --> 01:10:40,739
plasma and the object is slowly spinning

1343
01:10:46,910 --> 01:10:43,560
around it Center by slowly I mean very

1344
01:10:52,190 --> 01:10:46,920
slowly like once a minute it completes

1345
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:52,200
revolution and there's a stream he

1346
01:10:58,340 --> 01:10:54,210
described it as being similar to the

1347
01:11:01,100 --> 01:10:58,350
aurora borealis coming out of the object

1348
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:01,110
but it never reaches the ground it just

1349
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:06,960
kind of stops and the streams the part

1350
01:11:14,570 --> 01:11:07,170
of

1351
01:11:17,090 --> 01:11:14,580
it's not like you know like in a jet

1352
01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:17,100
right here your gases come out of the

1353
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:22,620
nozzles instead the you know these these

1354
01:11:26,930 --> 01:11:25,199
particles just come out of where

1355
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:26,940
opposite of wherever the objects

1356
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:29,010
movement has nothing to do with the any

1357
01:11:37,850 --> 01:11:33,690
you know in particular like a jet engine

1358
01:11:40,370 --> 01:11:37,860
or anything like that and so he's as

1359
01:11:45,380 --> 01:11:40,380
he's watching it the guy in the front

1360
01:11:46,729 --> 01:11:45,390
goes shoot it chase and he's like no I'm

1361
01:11:51,290 --> 01:11:46,739
not gonna shoot something I don't even

1362
01:11:55,220 --> 01:11:51,300
know what it is so he continues taking

1363
01:11:57,500 --> 01:11:55,230
mental notes and then this object starts

1364
01:12:01,939 --> 01:11:57,510
to move again and it it slowly moves off

1365
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:01,949
and by the time it's about a quarter

1366
01:12:06,050 --> 01:12:02,610
mile away

1367
01:12:07,820 --> 01:12:06,060
which is about oh I guess it's I think

1368
01:12:12,860 --> 01:12:07,830
that's roughly around five hundred yards

1369
01:12:14,270 --> 01:12:12,870
or so he picks up his camera again to

1370
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:14,280
see if maybe it will work this time

1371
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:16,290
because it was young turn on for a

1372
01:12:20,590 --> 01:12:18,510
minute turn off this time he turns it on

1373
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:20,600
and it's working

1374
01:12:28,220 --> 01:12:23,250
and so he thinks he's videoing the

1375
01:12:34,250 --> 01:12:28,230
object and he you know he videos it and

1376
01:12:38,780 --> 01:12:34,260
then the object disappears so then when

1377
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:38,790
after it's gone he replaces video well

1378
01:12:44,150 --> 01:12:41,130
during the three minutes of his video

1379
01:12:47,090 --> 01:12:44,160
that he video the object Holly you can

1380
01:12:53,900 --> 01:12:47,100
hear are their voices and you can't see

1381
01:12:59,630 --> 01:12:53,910
anything it's just noise so so this he

1382
01:13:05,060 --> 01:12:59,640
became he's got he's got several dozen

1383
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,070
Pat's on his business and and my first

1384
01:13:09,979 --> 01:13:07,440
thought when I heard his story was this

1385
01:13:12,650 --> 01:13:09,989
is pretty interesting I want to meet the

1386
01:13:17,540 --> 01:13:12,660
guy in person so I flew up to where the

1387
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:17,550
guy lived and I met with him and I had

1388
01:13:20,010 --> 01:13:19,050
already verified that he did have these

1389
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:20,020
patents

1390
01:13:25,260 --> 01:13:22,690
that and these are projects he does with

1391
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:25,270
the Department of Defense and I saw

1392
01:13:32,430 --> 01:13:28,930
operation even took me to a department

1393
01:13:33,450 --> 01:13:32,440
defense plant where he said okay Robert

1394
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:33,460
to get you in here

1395
01:13:39,690 --> 01:13:35,050
I'm gonna tell them that I'm

1396
01:13:41,730 --> 01:13:39,700
interviewing you for a job so so I gave

1397
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,740
them my driver's license and they sign

1398
01:13:45,060 --> 01:13:43,840
me in and we just went through there and

1399
01:13:46,380 --> 01:13:45,070
even just showed me the different

1400
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:46,390
products he had that they were

1401
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:48,610
manufacturing the Defense Department

1402
01:13:57,170 --> 01:13:51,760
plant this thing this plant was a full

1403
01:14:03,900 --> 01:13:57,180
acre indoors just everything from

1404
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:03,910
submarine buoys to lasers to you know

1405
01:14:07,620 --> 01:14:05,650
what have you and they weren't just

1406
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:07,630
making his products they were making

1407
01:14:14,370 --> 01:14:09,310
products from a lot of different people

1408
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:14,380
did you know so he was just showing me

1409
01:14:21,630 --> 01:14:18,760
this and then when I went to it he had

1410
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:21,640
five engineers at work for him he had

1411
01:14:30,270 --> 01:14:27,490
his own our research building he had a

1412
01:14:33,150 --> 01:14:30,280
very expensive car inside there and the

1413
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:33,160
guy clearly has plenty of money so to me

1414
01:14:37,020 --> 01:14:34,960
Martin it was like okay so why would

1415
01:14:38,610 --> 01:14:37,030
this guy make this this is one of these

1416
01:14:41,250 --> 01:14:38,620
stories right because I've got a very

1417
01:14:43,050 --> 01:14:41,260
credible witness I mean I've got a guy

1418
01:14:47,850 --> 01:14:43,060
with a science background that saw this

1419
01:14:53,190 --> 01:14:47,860
hmm and it's up close so you're left

1420
01:14:55,700 --> 01:14:53,200
with only really two hypotheses you know

1421
01:14:59,910 --> 01:14:55,710
what had happened or two guys lying

1422
01:15:03,330 --> 01:14:59,920
you know there's it's kind of hard to

1423
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:03,340
believe it was a mass hallucination of

1424
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:06,130
him and the other two hunters and we

1425
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:08,770
interviewed one of the other hunters on

1426
01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:11,410
video and when we interviewed this guy

1427
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:12,070
too

1428
01:15:20,220 --> 01:15:16,000
but we we had to black out their face

1429
01:15:23,190 --> 01:15:20,230
and their voices because he does not

1430
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:23,200
want his name or identity known because

1431
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:27,280
he has people that he employs and he

1432
01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:29,920
doesn't want to take the risk of losing

1433
01:15:33,770 --> 01:15:30,990
his

1434
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:33,780
vo deep contracts over something like

1435
01:15:39,860 --> 01:15:34,880
this

1436
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:39,870
did he actually say in the video in the

1437
01:15:47,300 --> 01:15:41,520
interview did he actually say that he

1438
01:15:49,100 --> 01:15:47,310
did contract work for the do D or not I

1439
01:15:50,750 --> 01:15:49,110
believe he did I'd have to go look at

1440
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,760
the video yeah I think he does say that

1441
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:52,800
mm-hmm and I know he did as I went to

1442
01:15:57,230 --> 01:15:55,140
his plant and I saw the work he was

1443
01:15:59,870 --> 01:15:57,240
doing you know and I went through the

1444
01:16:01,610 --> 01:15:59,880
DoD facility so there's no doubt that he

1445
01:16:05,860 --> 01:16:01,620
does so the question just becomes okay

1446
01:16:09,020 --> 01:16:05,870
why why would this guy make up the story

1447
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:09,030
I mean some people might say oh he's a

1448
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:11,040
government plan right they're trying to

1449
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:13,920
pull yeah you know your leg right like

1450
01:16:17,930 --> 01:16:16,530
there's no reason this guy would do that

1451
01:16:19,490 --> 01:16:17,940
there's and there's no reason to

1452
01:16:22,210 --> 01:16:19,500
government really would do that because

1453
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:22,220
if you think about it you follow Jesus

1454
01:16:27,740 --> 01:16:25,650
best worst enemy the government doesn't

1455
01:16:28,910 --> 01:16:27,750
have any have to do anything to kill it

1456
01:16:31,610 --> 01:16:28,920
yeah I know

1457
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:31,620
the Roswell slides and you could go on

1458
01:16:37,310 --> 01:16:35,130
and on yeah yeah how did you first hear

1459
01:16:39,530 --> 01:16:37,320
about did he report the story to one of

1460
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:39,540
the UFO centers or how did you hear

1461
01:16:48,020 --> 01:16:41,850
about the story to begin with okay so

1462
01:16:52,220 --> 01:16:48,030
this guy reported the story and in the

1463
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:52,230
MUFON and the the guy that went and

1464
01:16:57,370 --> 01:16:53,730
investigated the story was an

1465
01:16:59,840 --> 01:16:57,380
ex-policeman and he cut in the

1466
01:17:02,090 --> 01:16:59,850
ex-policeman who was a MUFON field

1467
01:17:04,970 --> 01:17:02,100
investigator contacted me because I was

1468
01:17:08,030 --> 01:17:04,980
he just asked grant hey who can I have

1469
01:17:14,300 --> 01:17:08,040
helped me out on this case so this guy

1470
01:17:16,940 --> 01:17:14,310
was open-minded enough to say hey you

1471
01:17:19,310 --> 01:17:16,950
know let me get some help on this so he

1472
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:19,320
and I talked about it you know Stewart

1473
01:17:26,750 --> 01:17:23,130
he met with with the witness at least

1474
01:17:33,380 --> 01:17:26,760
two to three times and then I flew up to

1475
01:17:35,540 --> 01:17:33,390
meet with a witness and I just wanted to

1476
01:17:38,510 --> 01:17:35,550
try to figure out okay what what is the

1477
01:17:40,610 --> 01:17:38,520
motivation here and I can't I could not

1478
01:17:43,290 --> 01:17:40,620
see any motivation for him to make this

1479
01:17:48,780 --> 01:17:45,960
because it's not like he you know he's

1480
01:17:50,970 --> 01:17:48,790
remaining anonymous mm-hm so he can't

1481
01:17:53,150 --> 01:17:50,980
make money from it and he doesn't need

1482
01:17:56,940 --> 01:17:53,160
money because he has plenty of money

1483
01:17:59,490 --> 01:17:56,950
there just no reason for him to make it

1484
01:17:59,820 --> 01:17:59,500
up now one thing I can I could tell from

1485
01:18:03,720 --> 01:17:59,830
it

1486
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:03,730
Martin is he is very I guess you might

1487
01:18:08,610 --> 01:18:06,010
say transfixed with what happened now I

1488
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:08,620
mean he's really wanting to okay how

1489
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:10,480
could I figure this out I mean he's had

1490
01:18:16,020 --> 01:18:14,710
his own engineers worked on models of

1491
01:18:18,330 --> 01:18:16,030
how could this happen

1492
01:18:21,570 --> 01:18:18,340
and for example you know where his video

1493
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:21,580
didn't work in his telephone mmm-hmm he

1494
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:23,410
doesn't you know he doesn't jump to the

1495
01:18:29,490 --> 01:18:27,040
conclusion over you know that ship

1496
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:29,500
didn't want me to video it so it you

1497
01:18:34,890 --> 01:18:32,080
know wiped out my iPhone that's not what

1498
01:18:37,170 --> 01:18:34,900
the way he looked at it at all he said

1499
01:18:39,450 --> 01:18:37,180
okay hey I've got a plasma that's 12

1500
01:18:41,970 --> 01:18:39,460
inches around this object that takes a

1501
01:18:45,180 --> 01:18:41,980
lot of power so he had his engineers

1502
01:18:48,390 --> 01:18:45,190
calculate how much power would it take

1503
01:18:52,230 --> 01:18:48,400
to create an indigo plasma in the

1504
01:18:58,020 --> 01:18:52,240
atmosphere and he he made the assumption

1505
01:19:02,430 --> 01:18:58,030
that the frequency of the plasma was the

1506
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:02,440
same as you can make the color indigo

1507
01:19:08,370 --> 01:19:06,970
with an electrical arcs and I don't

1508
01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:08,380
recall the frequency I'd have to go look

1509
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:11,230
it up what he did is he had his engineer

1510
01:19:15,950 --> 01:19:12,730
say okay that's the frequency of that

1511
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:15,960
how much power would it take to

1512
01:19:23,220 --> 01:19:19,600
basically turn 12 inches of atmosphere

1513
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:23,230
all around this craft into a plasma in

1514
01:19:28,050 --> 01:19:24,640
the answer they came back with was

1515
01:19:31,070 --> 01:19:28,060
basically the same amount of power as a

1516
01:19:34,230 --> 01:19:31,080
small nuclear power plant produce well

1517
01:19:38,190 --> 01:19:34,240
and and so from there he said okay well

1518
01:19:41,370 --> 01:19:38,200
if I guess that much power the en field

1519
01:19:43,050 --> 01:19:41,380
summit is going to be so strong that you

1520
01:19:46,020 --> 01:19:43,060
know my camera's not going to work nor

1521
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:46,030
will my cell phone work so he believes

1522
01:19:52,590 --> 01:19:49,690
that that was just an artifact of the

1523
01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:52,600
field around the craft and the once he

1524
01:19:56,510 --> 01:19:54,640
thinks that's why once it went farther

1525
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:56,520
away and he turns

1526
01:20:01,220 --> 01:19:59,280
a more back on that he was able to get

1527
01:20:03,740 --> 01:20:01,230
he was able to get the audio but he

1528
01:20:09,950 --> 01:20:03,750
wasn't able to get the video oh it still

1529
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:09,960
had some effect on it yeah so now when

1530
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,330
you're talking about that strong of a

1531
01:20:18,500 --> 01:20:15,120
signal isn't that could that be

1532
01:20:22,730 --> 01:20:18,510
detrimental to your health or you know

1533
01:20:24,170 --> 01:20:22,740
plant and animal health well it could be

1534
01:20:26,090 --> 01:20:24,180
if you're exposed to it for a

1535
01:20:29,810 --> 01:20:26,100
significant you know long enough period

1536
01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:29,820
of time but they would just you know it

1537
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:32,760
wasn't a real long exposure I see it was

1538
01:20:38,030 --> 01:20:35,370
you know four five hundred feet away

1539
01:20:41,540 --> 01:20:38,040
from them so I mean basically it was

1540
01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:41,550
just enough of an e/m field to probably

1541
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:44,040
this is he and I talked missus best

1542
01:20:52,100 --> 01:20:49,370
guess is that probably it was a Sony I

1543
01:20:54,710 --> 01:20:52,110
came in the brain it was one of the Sony

1544
01:20:59,180 --> 01:20:54,720
cameras and it probably has a safety

1545
01:21:01,310 --> 01:20:59,190
feature to keep from from a camera being

1546
01:21:02,780 --> 01:21:01,320
destroyed so it probably says okay if I

1547
01:21:07,490 --> 01:21:02,790
picked up more the next amount of

1548
01:21:10,430 --> 01:21:07,500
current in my you know in my circuitry

1549
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:10,440
then I just turn off that I you know you

1550
01:21:19,550 --> 01:21:12,090
have a breaker or something someone to

1551
01:21:22,610 --> 01:21:19,560
that thing cuts off the so that's what

1552
01:21:24,860 --> 01:21:22,620
he probably had and probably the same

1553
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:24,870
thing with a cell phone and they also

1554
01:21:29,660 --> 01:21:28,170
had a motorola radios that they used to

1555
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:29,670
communicate because there's no cell

1556
01:21:35,570 --> 01:21:33,120
phone towers in that area hmm and their

1557
01:21:38,050 --> 01:21:35,580
Motorola radio units were fried those

1558
01:21:44,210 --> 01:21:38,060
didn't survive Wow

1559
01:21:46,940 --> 01:21:44,220
wow that's amazing so did when this was

1560
01:21:53,330 --> 01:21:46,950
happening did he hear any type of sound

1561
01:21:58,580 --> 01:21:53,340
or anything do you talk about however he

1562
01:22:03,050 --> 01:21:58,590
took when I was visiting him we he's got

1563
01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:03,060
his camera it's locked up in a safe it's

1564
01:22:09,230 --> 01:22:05,490
okay he had his camera and we hooked it

1565
01:22:10,250 --> 01:22:09,240
up to an oscilloscope and he he

1566
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:10,260
basically

1567
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:13,530
feels that there is a real low-level

1568
01:22:18,529 --> 01:22:16,050
sound that's being generated it was

1569
01:22:21,020 --> 01:22:18,539
picked up on the video camera but it

1570
01:22:23,620 --> 01:22:21,030
wasn't a sound that he at least he

1571
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:23,630
didn't notice it when he was out there

1572
01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:26,400
when you talk to someone I love talking

1573
01:22:30,259 --> 01:22:27,030
to people

1574
01:22:32,270 --> 01:22:30,269
where an event happens to and you know

1575
01:22:35,839 --> 01:22:32,280
they're not really they never had an

1576
01:22:38,419 --> 01:22:35,849
interest in the field at all and they

1577
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:38,429
take it serious and you know what is it

1578
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:40,050
all that I love it

1579
01:22:49,279 --> 01:22:46,320
did does does he now wonder you know

1580
01:22:51,049 --> 01:22:49,289
about if it was say extraterrestrial I

1581
01:22:55,609 --> 01:22:51,059
mean his Heath is he thinking all those

1582
01:22:57,109 --> 01:22:55,619
different thoughts no yeah first thing

1583
01:22:59,870 --> 01:22:57,119
he thought about was okay this is

1584
01:23:03,020 --> 01:22:59,880
something that we have uh-huh because

1585
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:03,030
he's you know do the contacts he has

1586
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:05,489
been you know hey is there anything we

1587
01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:08,730
have like this cuz he and I talked about

1588
01:23:16,310 --> 01:23:12,960
that yeah and he said the one guy he

1589
01:23:20,959 --> 01:23:16,320
knows basically gave him an answer

1590
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:20,969
he said the guy told him if if we had

1591
01:23:28,729 --> 01:23:26,250
something like this I wouldn't give you

1592
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:28,739
an answer one way or another and the

1593
01:23:36,379 --> 01:23:32,610
only thing I can tell you is I don't

1594
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,389
know anything about it so basically the

1595
01:23:41,509 --> 01:23:39,360
guy was telling him that they don't have

1596
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:41,519
anything like that which I think he

1597
01:23:46,580 --> 01:23:43,320
already suspected right I mean because

1598
01:23:51,220 --> 01:23:46,590
if you can't we we just don't have the

1599
01:23:56,180 --> 01:23:51,230
ability to take a heavy large object and

1600
01:23:59,390 --> 01:23:56,190
to let it just sit there without moving

1601
01:24:01,100 --> 01:23:59,400
you know unless it's a balloon why do it

1602
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:01,110
unless it's lighter than air or unless

1603
01:24:06,410 --> 01:24:04,320
it's like a helicopter right but not an

1604
01:24:08,270 --> 01:24:06,420
object that makes no noise and it's

1605
01:24:13,700 --> 01:24:08,280
heavy and large and it just sits there

1606
01:24:16,189 --> 01:24:13,710
not something we can do right right yeah

1607
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:16,199
I find I find sightings like that

1608
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:20,159
fascinating and I have somehow either

1609
01:24:23,569 --> 01:24:22,050
read something because I do recall

1610
01:24:25,850 --> 01:24:23,579
seeing a

1611
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:25,860
graphic that almost looked like a

1612
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:27,690
barbell unless it was another UFO

1613
01:24:34,100 --> 01:24:31,199
sighting yeah he actually had his

1614
01:24:38,030 --> 01:24:34,110
engineers make a really neat graphic

1615
01:24:40,850 --> 01:24:38,040
that you can it's a PDF and you can

1616
01:24:44,089 --> 01:24:40,860
actually spin it by spinning I mean you

1617
01:24:45,500 --> 01:24:44,099
can on your computer you can turn it you

1618
01:24:49,100 --> 01:24:45,510
know you can make it look at you say

1619
01:24:52,129 --> 01:24:49,110
song it's it's a 3d CAD drawing

1620
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:52,139
basically and you can just turn the

1621
01:24:56,780 --> 01:24:54,090
object any way you want and you see it

1622
01:24:59,120 --> 01:24:56,790
from all different brains all right

1623
01:25:02,089 --> 01:24:59,130
going back to UFO data we were talking

1624
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:02,099
about that earlier what happens in a

1625
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:05,040
situation like this when there is plasma

1626
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:07,710
and you have a unit you're trying to

1627
01:25:13,490 --> 01:25:11,280
collect data with does the same thing

1628
01:25:18,530 --> 01:25:13,500
happened at either will fry it or it'll

1629
01:25:20,089 --> 01:25:18,540
you know not work yeah I mean if let's

1630
01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:20,099
just say there had been a UFO data

1631
01:25:24,410 --> 01:25:22,710
system there like the one that they

1632
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:24,420
developed a model it I'll take a

1633
01:25:34,359 --> 01:25:28,050
spectrograph what would have happened

1634
01:25:37,660 --> 01:25:34,369
because it's a battery-operated DSLR

1635
01:25:41,540 --> 01:25:37,670
camera system so it's very similar to

1636
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:41,550
like it will do video right and it would

1637
01:25:47,689 --> 01:25:44,510
have shut down also just like his vid

1638
01:25:51,229 --> 01:25:47,699
that must be so frustrating I so many

1639
01:25:57,709 --> 01:25:51,239
cases you hear about well the car stalls

1640
01:26:00,169 --> 01:25:57,719
the cameras happens a lot where a

1641
01:26:03,979 --> 01:26:00,179
battery looks like that just dies when

1642
01:26:06,490 --> 01:26:03,989
it was fully charged and it must all you

1643
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:06,500
know be related to the you know the same

1644
01:26:14,629 --> 01:26:09,690
propulsion system or something whatever

1645
01:26:18,109 --> 01:26:14,639
it is all fascinating stuff yeah I mean

1646
01:26:20,270 --> 01:26:18,119
the thing that I would like done if

1647
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:20,280
there the resources were available right

1648
01:26:25,729 --> 01:26:24,090
which the resources are there if there

1649
01:26:28,669 --> 01:26:25,739
was a government organization to do it

1650
01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:28,679
right because you've got a known camera

1651
01:26:36,500 --> 01:26:34,199
model it was a sony cybershot and we

1652
01:26:37,340 --> 01:26:36,510
know the exact model right and so all

1653
01:26:40,910 --> 01:26:37,350
you need is you

1654
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:40,920
the design engineers tell you okay how

1655
01:26:45,230 --> 01:26:42,930
does the shutdown for how does the

1656
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:45,240
shutdown mechanism work on that camera

1657
01:26:51,460 --> 01:26:48,210
mm-hmm and what and then you would just

1658
01:26:54,350 --> 01:26:51,470
model okay what kind of frequencies

1659
01:26:56,900 --> 01:26:54,360
would shut it down and it brought power

1660
01:26:59,210 --> 01:26:56,910
levels and then the same thing with the

1661
01:27:01,400 --> 01:26:59,220
cell phone right and then you look at

1662
01:27:03,730 --> 01:27:01,410
where they intersect in other words what

1663
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:03,740
what power level and what frequency

1664
01:27:12,380 --> 01:27:08,930
would basically cause the cellphone to

1665
01:27:14,770 --> 01:27:12,390
basically turn off and read restart up

1666
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:14,780
again cause the camera to shut down

1667
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:17,520
within a second of being turned on and

1668
01:27:29,630 --> 01:27:23,370
cause the what you mccumbee motorola

1669
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:29,640
field radios to fry and the truck engine

1670
01:27:33,380 --> 01:27:31,770
is unaffected yeah I was just going to

1671
01:27:35,330 --> 01:27:33,390
ask you about I was gonna ask you about

1672
01:27:40,070 --> 01:27:35,340
the truck so nothing at all happened

1673
01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:40,080
with the truck right the truck the

1674
01:27:45,110 --> 01:27:42,630
engine they turned off the lights but

1675
01:27:49,670 --> 01:27:45,120
the engine was not you know did not cut

1676
01:27:51,530 --> 01:27:49,680
or die well that is just so baffling it

1677
01:27:54,170 --> 01:27:51,540
seems like oh yeah it's some type of

1678
01:27:57,020 --> 01:27:54,180
frequency somewhere in between but you

1679
01:27:59,510 --> 01:27:57,030
know you have car computers today are so

1680
01:28:07,400 --> 01:27:59,520
complicated it seems like it would it

1681
01:28:09,470 --> 01:28:07,410
would somehow affect that I'm not an

1682
01:28:13,580 --> 01:28:09,480
electrical engineer so I don't I don't

1683
01:28:16,940 --> 01:28:13,590
know you know how you know current cars

1684
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:16,950
and trucks are designed in terms of you

1685
01:28:24,410 --> 01:28:20,480
know how susceptible are they to am feel

1686
01:28:25,610 --> 01:28:24,420
so you know we have we're coming up at

1687
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:25,620
the top of the hour but I'm gonna go a

1688
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:28,050
little longer because of the technical

1689
01:28:30,730 --> 01:28:29,970
issues that we had if that's okay with

1690
01:28:36,350 --> 01:28:30,740
you

1691
01:28:39,530 --> 01:28:36,360
another another five or so after what do

1692
01:28:41,060 --> 01:28:39,540
you think is what's your best the only

1693
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:41,070
thing I can ask is what's your best

1694
01:28:48,530 --> 01:28:46,170
guess on you know I I think you

1695
01:28:50,770 --> 01:28:48,540
understand that you know something's

1696
01:28:52,900 --> 01:28:50,780
happening

1697
01:28:57,459 --> 01:28:52,910
so I'm gonna ask you what your best

1698
01:28:59,170 --> 01:28:57,469
guess is to what it could be okay so

1699
01:29:02,110 --> 01:28:59,180
that's a that's a good question Martin

1700
01:29:05,860 --> 01:29:02,120
here's you're basically asking me what's

1701
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:05,870
my view of the UFO phenomena and okay so

1702
01:29:12,490 --> 01:29:09,770
this is my answer based on ten years of

1703
01:29:18,430 --> 01:29:12,500
studying it and I probably average 15

1704
01:29:21,959 --> 01:29:18,440
hours a week working on it know in my

1705
01:29:24,550 --> 01:29:21,969
mind there's no doubt that if they

1706
01:29:27,610 --> 01:29:24,560
physically exist right in other words

1707
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:27,620
I'm saying the UFO phenomena it's not

1708
01:29:37,870 --> 01:29:31,250
just light from the sky it's an actual

1709
01:29:39,459 --> 01:29:37,880
physical object and as far as I can tell

1710
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:39,469
it appears to be intelligently

1711
01:29:45,450 --> 01:29:41,570
controlled so I feel pretty confident

1712
01:29:49,810 --> 01:29:45,460
that it's intelligently controlled now

1713
01:29:51,550 --> 01:29:49,820
what what is it you know where does it

1714
01:29:53,440 --> 01:29:51,560
come from there's no way to really know

1715
01:29:55,780 --> 01:29:53,450
that right I mean there's no way to know

1716
01:29:59,830 --> 01:29:55,790
from where does it originate now I can

1717
01:30:02,700 --> 01:29:59,840
give my best hypothesis right which is

1718
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:02,710
just a guess based on the facts

1719
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:05,570
information that we have if I had to

1720
01:30:12,580 --> 01:30:08,410
guess I would say it probably was

1721
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:12,590
extraterrestrial and my guess is it's

1722
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:16,010
more than one extraterrestrial source

1723
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:19,450
just because there's so many different

1724
01:30:27,220 --> 01:30:24,850
shapes and you know capabilities and

1725
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:27,230
overtime right this started right after

1726
01:30:32,650 --> 01:30:29,330
World War two or actually during World

1727
01:30:36,970 --> 01:30:32,660
War two and in the beginning it was

1728
01:30:40,270 --> 01:30:36,980
dominated by the disc shape and read AI

1729
01:30:42,250 --> 01:30:40,280
would say well I want it's not that I

1730
01:30:44,590 --> 01:30:42,260
would say I've actually looked at it and

1731
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:44,600
it's it's now dominated by the triangle

1732
01:30:53,020 --> 01:30:48,650
shape and no the new model so right

1733
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:53,030
let's changed you know over time and the

1734
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:55,489
characteristics right back in the 70s

1735
01:31:03,100 --> 01:30:59,840
and 80s it was very 60s and 70s very

1736
01:31:04,090 --> 01:31:03,110
common for automobiles to just suddenly

1737
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:04,100
die

1738
01:31:07,150 --> 01:31:06,050
right when they were in the presence of

1739
01:31:09,940 --> 01:31:07,160
a mmm

1740
01:31:11,650 --> 01:31:09,950
one of these look that does that rarely

1741
01:31:15,910 --> 01:31:11,660
there's a few cases but it rarely

1742
01:31:17,170 --> 01:31:15,920
happens today so the cure and maybe

1743
01:31:19,390 --> 01:31:17,180
that's because of the way we've changed

1744
01:31:23,460 --> 01:31:19,400
the design of the car when we went from

1745
01:31:27,390 --> 01:31:23,470
the you know the old fashioned

1746
01:31:30,370 --> 01:31:27,400
distributor system was a spark ignition

1747
01:31:32,830 --> 01:31:30,380
system to the modern which beautiful so

1748
01:31:36,130 --> 01:31:32,840
maybe that's why I don't know but a lot

1749
01:31:39,780 --> 01:31:36,140
of things in the phenomenon change so I

1750
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:39,790
think the best bets extraterrestrial and

1751
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:47,090
to me if you argue it not from the UFOs

1752
01:31:52,180 --> 01:31:50,210
people see here but just forget that for

1753
01:31:57,400 --> 01:31:52,190
a minute and just look at all the

1754
01:32:00,280 --> 01:31:57,410
extrasolar planets that we see right I

1755
01:32:02,980 --> 01:32:00,290
mean we we've now catalogued over 3,000

1756
01:32:04,990 --> 01:32:02,990
extrasolar planets mm-hmm in a large

1757
01:32:09,730 --> 01:32:05,000
number not a large a good number of

1758
01:32:12,610 --> 01:32:09,740
those are in the habitable zones and if

1759
01:32:15,310 --> 01:32:12,620
you ask for example some of the

1760
01:32:17,290 --> 01:32:15,320
scientists in SETI about

1761
01:32:19,990 --> 01:32:17,300
extraterrestrial life they will readily

1762
01:32:22,900 --> 01:32:20,000
admit that intelligent extraterrestrial

1763
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:22,910
life exists out there I mean that's why

1764
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:25,010
they're that's why they're doing the

1765
01:32:29,740 --> 01:32:26,690
work they're doing because they believe

1766
01:32:32,050 --> 01:32:29,750
it exists so they're fine

1767
01:32:33,970 --> 01:32:32,060
telling you that there's life that

1768
01:32:36,660 --> 01:32:33,980
exists and if you ask them with some of

1769
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:36,670
that life much more intelligent than us

1770
01:32:43,270 --> 01:32:40,010
they will say yes some of it's got to be

1771
01:32:45,850 --> 01:32:43,280
more intelligent than us so then you ask

1772
01:32:50,050 --> 01:32:45,860
the next question do they know we're

1773
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:50,060
here and now you may get four answers

1774
01:32:55,660 --> 01:32:52,130
from them but to me the answer is

1775
01:32:57,850 --> 01:32:55,670
absolutely yes and the reason is just

1776
01:33:00,970 --> 01:32:57,860
look at what we've done in the last 20

1777
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:00,980
years absolutely like where we've gone

1778
01:33:06,550 --> 01:33:03,440
from zero extrasolar planets to we've

1779
01:33:09,970 --> 01:33:06,560
now catalogue over four thousand I would

1780
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:09,980
say well within 20 years of being able

1781
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:14,570
to identify the chemical species in the

1782
01:33:19,540 --> 01:33:16,490
atmosphere some of these planets

1783
01:33:21,730 --> 01:33:19,550
right so you can imagine civilization

1784
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:21,740
hundreds of years more advanced than us

1785
01:33:28,090 --> 01:33:24,650
they've already realized that there's a

1786
01:33:30,970 --> 01:33:28,100
planet going around our Sun the planet

1787
01:33:34,690 --> 01:33:30,980
Earth that has oxygen nitrogen and

1788
01:33:38,550 --> 01:33:34,700
atmosphere they may even be able to

1789
01:33:42,100 --> 01:33:38,560
detect that when it's not facing the Sun

1790
01:33:44,470 --> 01:33:42,110
there's a certain frequencies of life

1791
01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:44,480
that seems to dominate across the land

1792
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:47,120
masses right all that light we bit

1793
01:33:55,410 --> 01:33:51,530
mm-hmm and then they may also may even

1794
01:33:58,360 --> 01:33:55,420
be able to detect isotopes of uranium

1795
01:34:00,520 --> 01:33:58,370
and plutonium in our atmosphere because

1796
01:34:03,310 --> 01:34:00,530
those still exists from our above-ground

1797
01:34:06,940 --> 01:34:03,320
bombings from the fifties and sixties so

1798
01:34:09,730 --> 01:34:06,950
you've got strontium isotopes uranium

1799
01:34:12,070 --> 01:34:09,740
plutonium and so they could look at that

1800
01:34:14,530 --> 01:34:12,080
and they could go okay there's someone

1801
01:34:18,220 --> 01:34:14,540
that lives there that has the capability

1802
01:34:19,540 --> 01:34:18,230
of doing nuclear fission fusion now

1803
01:34:24,730 --> 01:34:19,550
whether they still exist

1804
01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:24,740
they may not know yeah that the the only

1805
01:34:30,790 --> 01:34:27,920
question becomes can they get here right

1806
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:30,800
and that's where science becomes very

1807
01:34:36,370 --> 01:34:33,890
closed-minded and I I think it's just

1808
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:36,380
that we just because we don't have the

1809
01:34:40,780 --> 01:34:38,090
physics of that figured out yet doesn't

1810
01:34:43,900 --> 01:34:40,790
mean that it can't be out there and it

1811
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:43,910
can't be figured out right and interest

1812
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:45,440
but it's becoming a little more

1813
01:34:50,290 --> 01:34:47,570
open-minded I went to a conference in

1814
01:34:52,060 --> 01:34:50,300
Huntsville only I guess was three or

1815
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:52,070
four months ago and you know what this

1816
01:34:59,470 --> 01:34:55,810
conference was about how could we get a

1817
01:35:01,660 --> 01:34:59,480
space a small spacecraft to Alpha

1818
01:35:04,780 --> 01:35:01,670
Centauri which is four light-years away

1819
01:35:08,380 --> 01:35:04,790
yeah within twenty years

1820
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:08,390
get it there point in that who was at

1821
01:35:17,020 --> 01:35:12,970
this conference NASA the US Air Force a

1822
01:35:19,260 --> 01:35:17,030
large number of major universities that

1823
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:19,270
you know do research for the Air Force

1824
01:35:27,790 --> 01:35:24,730
in the basic concept was I mean it's

1825
01:35:30,010 --> 01:35:27,800
it's technically possible for us to

1826
01:35:33,250 --> 01:35:30,020
actually send a very small

1827
01:35:35,650 --> 01:35:33,260
spacecraft to Alpha Centauri which we

1828
01:35:38,590 --> 01:35:35,660
found we know there's a planet there in

1829
01:35:41,500 --> 01:35:38,600
the habit of habitable zone of Alpha

1830
01:35:46,270 --> 01:35:41,510
Centauri and get it there in 20 years

1831
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:46,280
and the basic idea was to use a huge

1832
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:50,810
Bank of laser systems on the earth or on

1833
01:36:00,460 --> 01:35:55,450
the moon and to use those lasers to

1834
01:36:03,550 --> 01:36:00,470
accelerate a an object that's basically

1835
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:03,560
I don't know probably an ounce and rate

1836
01:36:10,990 --> 01:36:07,810
or less is this the sale the sale thing

1837
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:11,000
well this is not as I guess you might

1838
01:36:20,410 --> 01:36:16,970
call it a sale basically hit this sale

1839
01:36:23,140 --> 01:36:20,420
and you accelerate it to 20% of the

1840
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:23,150
speed of light mm-hmm and they've done

1841
01:36:27,610 --> 01:36:24,770
the calculations it's going to take in

1842
01:36:30,850 --> 01:36:27,620
11 minutes it would be at 20% of the

1843
01:36:33,060 --> 01:36:30,860
speed of light but the key here is the

1844
01:36:37,660 --> 01:36:33,070
weight the weight is almost nothing

1845
01:36:42,580 --> 01:36:37,670
you're basically taking a silicon chip

1846
01:36:44,650 --> 01:36:42,590
and the ability to take photographs and

1847
01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:44,660
you know just do a few basic

1848
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:46,450
measurements like your cell phone to do

1849
01:36:54,970 --> 01:36:50,770
and and that becomes your spacecraft and

1850
01:36:56,860 --> 01:36:54,980
in 20 years they could get it to Alpha

1851
01:36:59,770 --> 01:36:56,870
Centauri now they couldn't get it to

1852
01:37:01,390 --> 01:36:59,780
slow down so it's gonna be like flying

1853
01:37:04,990 --> 01:37:01,400
through their solar system and just

1854
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:05,000
snapping pictures as it goes by and then

1855
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:06,560
sending them back and that would be it

1856
01:37:12,460 --> 01:37:09,890
but the point there is that we're

1857
01:37:14,530 --> 01:37:12,470
already starting to think about that so

1858
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:14,540
where would sure civilization it

1859
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:16,730
hundreds of years more advanced than us

1860
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:20,000
to be right I'm just a thought on that

1861
01:37:25,900 --> 01:37:23,090
now it does wait actually this is just a

1862
01:37:35,650 --> 01:37:25,910
formal a person here does wait really

1863
01:37:39,540 --> 01:37:35,660
matter in space for travel does the mass

1864
01:37:43,090 --> 01:37:39,550
of the object makes the difference so

1865
01:37:45,580 --> 01:37:43,100
because basically the photon has

1866
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:45,590
close to zero mass and it's traveling at

1867
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:47,930
the speed of light and you're basically

1868
01:37:54,370 --> 01:37:51,410
trying to get some amount of mass to

1869
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:54,380
travel close to the speed of light by

1870
01:38:00,670 --> 01:37:56,210
heating it with these photons and

1871
01:38:04,210 --> 01:38:00,680
imparting that energy to the man oh wow

1872
01:38:06,070 --> 01:38:04,220
okay so in closing here just one thing

1873
01:38:08,860 --> 01:38:06,080
and I'm not sure if this is still

1874
01:38:10,900 --> 01:38:08,870
something that's active or not but I do

1875
01:38:13,810 --> 01:38:10,910
remember that you said I got an email

1876
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:13,820
from you oh I don't know maybe a couple

1877
01:38:17,410 --> 01:38:15,530
of months ago that you were trying to do

1878
01:38:20,350 --> 01:38:17,420
a call of action going back to the

1879
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:20,360
Nimitz are you still is that still

1880
01:38:29,830 --> 01:38:25,250
ongoing yes we're trying to get everyone

1881
01:38:34,030 --> 01:38:29,840
to send their congressman a letter

1882
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:34,040
asking for Congress to investigate this

1883
01:38:41,890 --> 01:38:37,010
incident you know to basically ask the

1884
01:38:45,250 --> 01:38:41,900
Navy to give Congress a debriefing of

1885
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:45,260
what happened that's great and where can

1886
01:38:50,860 --> 01:38:48,080
someone find that I mean I saw a link to

1887
01:38:54,730 --> 01:38:50,870
that on open minds it's probably still

1888
01:39:00,670 --> 01:38:54,740
there yes there's a link on open mind

1889
01:39:07,050 --> 01:39:00,680
and if they go to Facebook and if they

1890
01:39:09,820 --> 01:39:07,060
just look on Facebook for the word scu

1891
01:39:12,940 --> 01:39:09,830
scientific Coalition for ufology they'll

1892
01:39:17,620 --> 01:39:12,950
put that in they'll find the SCU

1893
01:39:19,750 --> 01:39:17,630
Facebook site and on their there there

1894
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:19,760
are plenty of instructions that tell

1895
01:39:24,130 --> 01:39:22,250
them how to fight they can actually

1896
01:39:27,730 --> 01:39:24,140
click on links that tell them who their

1897
01:39:30,730 --> 01:39:27,740
congressman is I've got a letter

1898
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:30,740
template that they can download and

1899
01:39:38,950 --> 01:39:33,730
print out and send to their congressman

1900
01:39:40,630 --> 01:39:38,960
so just go to Facebook and search for

1901
01:39:43,540 --> 01:39:40,640
the word scientific Coalition for

1902
01:39:46,540 --> 01:39:43,550
ufology and you'll find everything you

1903
01:39:48,270 --> 01:39:46,550
need there excellent Robert as always

1904
01:39:50,950 --> 01:39:48,280
it's such a pleasure

1905
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:50,960
well thanks Martin it was a interesting

1906
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:52,850
talk yes and I'm sorry we had a little

1907
01:39:56,550 --> 01:39:54,650
bit of technical difficulty but we made

1908
01:40:00,060 --> 01:39:56,560
it through

1909
01:40:02,500 --> 01:40:00,070
all right so you take you take care

1910
01:40:05,980 --> 01:40:02,510
thank you have a wonderful week bye-bye

1911
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:05,990
all right bye now okay everyone so thank

1912
01:40:11,830 --> 01:40:08,770
you so much for hanging in with us and

1913
01:40:14,020 --> 01:40:11,840
we're gonna be back next week with Peter

1914
01:40:17,230 --> 01:40:14,030
Davenport he's always a great guest to

1915
01:40:18,910 --> 01:40:17,240
have on and so that's it for tonight I

1916
01:40:21,820 --> 01:40:18,920
want to thank the people that helped out

1917
01:40:25,300 --> 01:40:21,830
with the show Alejandro Rojas our guests

1918
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:25,310
Peggy for managing our Facebook page

1919
01:40:31,300 --> 01:40:28,610
there's 23 thousand I think people on

1920
01:40:34,060 --> 01:40:31,310
our Facebook page and some activity

1921
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:34,070
going on there she's always posting UFO

1922
01:40:40,150 --> 01:40:36,290
updates on that and science related

1923
01:40:42,490 --> 01:40:40,160
things so check that out and again I

1924
01:40:45,220 --> 01:40:42,500
want to thank you all for listening

1925
01:40:51,430 --> 01:40:45,230
and remember to keep your eyes to the